Coord Transform in de Sitter Space: Phys Significance &Linearity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of deriving coordinate transformations for events in de Sitter space using the invariant line element, similar to the Lorentz transformations in Minkowski space. Participants explore the implications of these transformations, their physical significance, and the nature of reference frames in general relativity compared to special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a set of coordinate transformations can be derived for the de Sitter metric that maintains the invariant line element, suggesting that this could have physical significance.
  • Another participant clarifies that the concept of a global inertial frame does not exist in curved spacetimes, including de Sitter space, which may affect the derivation of such transformations.
  • A different participant asserts that valid coordinate transformations in curved spacetime must leave the line element invariant, but emphasizes that no coordinate chart can correspond to a global inertial reference frame.
  • One participant notes that the geometry and symmetries of de Sitter space may not be easily understood from typical coordinate choices, suggesting that symmetry transformations are those that leave the metric tensor invariant.
  • Another participant identifies the group of transformations relevant to de Sitter space as ##SO(4,1)##, indicating that there is existing literature on de Sitter relativity that may be of interest.
  • A later reply connects the ##SO(4,1)## transformations to the embedding of de Sitter space into Minkowski space, suggesting that these transformations can be inferred from this embedding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of reference frames in curved spacetime and the feasibility of deriving coordinate transformations in de Sitter space. There is no consensus on the physical significance or linearity of such transformations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the geometry and symmetries of de Sitter space, as well as the dependence on specific coordinate choices. The implications of the transformations and their physical significance remain unresolved.

Sciencemaster
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TL;DR
Can one derive a coordinate transformation for the de Sitter space from its invariant interval akin to the Lorentz Transform in Minkowski Space?
Could one derive a set of coordinate transformations that transforms events between different reference frames in the de Sitter metric using the invariant line element, similar to how the Lorentz Transformations leave the line element of the Minkowski metric invariant? Would these coordinate transforms be physically significant?

I understand that the concept of reference frames and their coordinate systems works differently in GR than in the flat spacetime of SR, but given that the de Sitter Metric is maximally symmetric, I was wondering if this would be possible and perhaps even physically meaningful.

For instance, an axiom used in deriving the Lorentz Transformations is that $x=\pm ct$. In de Sitter space, the invariant quantity would instead be $r=\pm \left(1-\frac{r^2}{\alpha^2}\right)ct$. Could this be used to derive a coordinate transform and would it have any physical significance?

Also, if this transform can be derived, would it be linear? I would imagine it is due to the symmetry in the metric, and it would make deriving the transformations much easier, but I'm not absolutely sure since $g_{rr}$ and $g_{tt}$ depend on $r$.
 
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Sciencemaster said:
I understand that the concept of reference frames and their coordinate systems works differently in GR than in the flat spacetime of SR
The concept of "reference frame" that I suspect you are using, namely a global inertial frame in which a family of observers at rest in the frame (i.e., with constant spatial coordinates) are (a) at rest relative to each other, and (b) all in free fall, does not exist in any curved spacetime. That includes de Sitter spacetime.

Sciencemaster said:
given that the de Sitter Metric is maximally symmetric, I was wondering if this would be possible
Not the way I suspect you are thinking. See above.
 
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Sciencemaster said:
Could one derive a set of coordinate transformations that transforms events between different reference frames coordinate charts in the de Sitter metric using the invariant line element
With the correction I made above (see the strikethrough and the bolded text), you can do it in any curved spacetime. In fact, that is the definition of a valid coordinate transformation: that it leaves the line element invariant. But no coordinate chart on a curved spacetime can correspond to a global inertial reference frame.
 
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Yes, but maybe not in the way you are imagining. The particular coordinate form of the line element is not as important as the geometry of the spacetime and the symmetries of de Sitter space are generally not very transparent from the typical coordinate choices.

By definition, symmetry transformations are those that leave the metric tensor invariant. In other words, they are maps ##f: M \to M## such that the pullback of the metric is the metric itself ##f^*g = g##. After making any such transformation, reintroducing coordinates in the same way as before will of course lead to the same coordinate form for the line element.

In general, the ##n##-dimensional de Sitter space ##dS_n## can be embedded into ##n+1##-dimensional Minkowski space as Minkowski equivalent of a sphere in Euclidean space and the symmetry transformations may be inferred from there.
 
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Sciencemaster said:
Can one derive a coordinate transformation for the de Sitter space from its invariant interval akin to the Lorentz Transform in Minkowski Space?
The group of transformations is ##SO(4,1)##. There is extensive literature concerning de Sitter (special) relativity, which may interest you. :oldsmile:
 
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Just to point out that this
strangerep said:
The group of transformations is ##SO(4,1)##.
is what follows from this
Orodruin said:
In general, the n-dimensional de Sitter space dSn can be embedded into n+1-dimensional Minkowski space as Minkowski equivalent of a sphere in Euclidean space and the symmetry transformations may be inferred from there.
The SO(n,1) transformations are the Lorentz transformations in the embedding Minkowski space.
 
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