Derive Lorentz Transformation by Visualizing Space-Time Coordinates

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the Lorentz transformation by visualizing space-time coordinates, focusing on the relationships between different inertial frames and the implications of relativistic effects. Participants explore the conceptual underpinnings of the transformation, including the treatment of time and space in different frames, while seeking to maintain consistency with the principles of relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a visualization approach to derive the Lorentz transformation, starting from a space-time coordinate system set by observer A and considering observer B moving at velocity +v.
  • It is suggested that if A's worldline is represented as (t, 0), then in B's frame it should transform to (t, -vt) under the assumption of absolute time.
  • Another participant questions the introduction of frame C, arguing that if it is at rest relative to A, it effectively represents A's frame.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of mathematical rigor in the derivation, with a suggestion to consider a composite transformation from A to B to C.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the correct form of the transformation and the function γ(v), with one suggesting that different ranges of γ correspond to different types of transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the proposed derivation or the role of frame C. There are multiple competing views regarding the necessity of mathematical rigor and the implications of the transformations discussed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions about the nature of time in different frames, the dependence on definitions of simultaneity, and unresolved mathematical steps in deriving the function γ(v).

  • #31
PeroK said:
It's simply unnecessary to assume FTL. Especially since these FTL frames are disallowed by the Lorentz transformations that have been deduced. Try here, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapidity

I read somewhere that Lorentz transformations actually disallow matter being accelerated to FTL. Particles which are already moving FTL can still be hypothesized. Here are some related links:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...-it-has-always-been-travelling-faster-t/55871

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

It is stated that these particles would cause causality problems, but that wouldn't be the first time the universe defied our everyday logic.
 

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