Correct interpretation of terms in proper velocity expression?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of terms in the proper velocity expression within the context of cosmology, specifically focusing on the peculiar velocity term and the relationship between co-moving time and conformal time. The scope includes theoretical aspects of cosmological models and the implications of terminology used in the equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the proper distance and velocity equations, seeking to clarify the meaning of the peculiar velocity term in cosmology.
  • Another participant questions the terminology, suggesting that "co-moving time" might be interpreted as "conformal time," and cites a source to support their view that these terms are not interchangeable.
  • A different participant agrees with the initial interpretation of the equations and acknowledges the handling of the terms, indicating that the peculiar velocity is correctly identified as the change in the co-moving radial distance due to the object's motion.
  • There is a suggestion that the term "conformal time" could be more appropriate than "co-moving time," with a participant expressing concern about the potential confusion caused by terminology.
  • One participant expresses satisfaction with the discussion, indicating that they find the interpretations acceptable.
  • A later post seeks clarification on whether inertial observers measure conformal time rather than cosmological time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretation of the equations presented, but there is disagreement regarding the terminology of "co-moving time" versus "conformal time," with some participants advocating for clearer definitions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the potential confusion arising from the use of different terms in cosmology, particularly regarding time intervals, and the implications this has for understanding proper velocity expressions.

johne1618
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The "cosmological" proper distance from the origin, D(t), to an object at radial co-ordinate r at cosmological time t is given by

D(t) = a(t) r(t)

The corresponding "cosmological" proper velocity v of the object is given by

v = \frac{dD}{dt} = \frac{da}{dt} r(t) + a(t) \frac{dr}{dt}

Using the definition of the Hubble parameter H(t) = \dot{a} / a and the above equation D = a r we find

v(t) = H(t) D(t) + a(t) \frac{dr}{dt}

The first term is Hubble's law for the recessional velocity of a co-moving object whereas the second is the peculiar velocity term.

I would like to further understand the meaning of the peculiar velocity term.

To do so I use the relationship between an interval of co-moving time τ and cosmic time t

d\tau = \frac{dt}{a(t)}

to rewrite the peculiar velocity term so that we have

v(t) = H(t) D(t) + \frac{dr}{d\tau}

Thus the cosmological proper velocity of an object is the recessional velocity of its co-moving inertial frame plus the velocity of the object within this inertial frame. The co-ordinates of the object within its inertial frame are (r,\tau).

Is this the right interpretation of the above equation?
 
Last edited:
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johne1618 said:
I would like to further understand the meaning of the peculiar velocity term.

To do so I use the relationship between an interval of co-moving time τ and cosmic time t

d\tau = \frac{dt}{a(t)}
...

Instead of "co-moving time" can I interpret that as "conformal time"?
I don't mean to be picky about terminology but sometimes I get slowed down just by unfamiliar words.

According to paragraph 6 of this essay in John Baez physics FAQ
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/hubble.html
"comoving time" is actually just the SAME AS COSMIC TIME.
So it is not the same as conformal time.
An interval of conformal could differ by a factor of 1000 from an interval of cosmic (ie. "comoving").

==quote from Baez FAQ==
... However, this explanation glosses over one crucial point: the time coordinate. FRW spacetimes come fully equipped with a specially distinguished time coordinate (called the comoving or cosmological time). For example, a comoving observer could set her clock by the average density of surrounding speckles, or by the temperature of the Cosmic Background Radiation. (From a purely mathematical standpoint, the comoving time coordinate is singled out by a certain symmetry property.)...
==endquote==

I haven't heard "comoving time" used much--maybe others have and I just didn't notice. If it is as uncommon as I think, it could cause confusion.

IMHO better to say cosmic time t, or FRW time t.
the tau as you define it would be conformal time
=====================

I think your interpretation is perfectly fine, though. Good handling of the equations. Straightforward derivation. You clearly indicate that r is the CO-MOVING radial distance, so it doesn't change except due to the objects own peculiar motion.
The objects own peculiar radial velocity is then, as you say, dr/dτ

Maybe someone else will find something wrong. I don't
 
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marcus said:
Instead of "co-moving time" can I interpret that as "conformal time"?

Sorry - yes I meant conformal time \tau.
 
Hey great!
That sets my mind at rest. So AFAICS everything is OK.
 
marcus said:
Hey great!
That sets my mind at rest. So AFAICS everything is OK.

So do inertial observers measure conformal time \tau rather than cosmological time t?
 

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