Could a massive gravitational field influence the speed of light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether a massive gravitational field can influence the speed of light. Participants explore concepts related to gravitational lensing, the behavior of light in gravitational fields, and the implications of general relativity. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications regarding light's interaction with gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that light could be influenced by a gravitational field, suggesting that it might accelerate if the field complemented its path.
  • Others argue that light does not gain speed in a gravitational field; instead, it gains energy by increasing its frequency, maintaining a constant speed of light (c).
  • A participant agrees that locally, light always moves at c, but suggests that from a global perspective, high gravitational fields may create the illusion of slowing light down.
  • Another participant clarifies that light travels along "light-like geodesics" and cannot escape a black hole, emphasizing that the paths light takes can lead to different travel times without affecting its speed.
  • One participant uses an analogy involving an airplane traveling over the Earth's surface to illustrate how varying paths can lead to different travel times without implying a change in speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on whether a massive gravitational field can accelerate light. While some assert that light's speed remains constant, others explore the implications of gravitational effects on light's path and perceived speed.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the nature of light's interaction with gravity, the definitions of speed in curved spacetime, and the implications of gravitational lensing. Some participants acknowledge the complexity of the mathematics involved but do not resolve these issues.

Edriven
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Could the speed of light be accelerated by a huge gravitational field? For example, we know light doesn't escape a black hole and is strong enough to cause lensing, therefore could it accelerate light if it complimented the light's path?
 
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Edriven said:
Could the speed of light be accelerated by a huge gravitational field? For example, we know light doesn't escape a black hole and is strong enough to cause lensing, therefore could it accelerate light if it complimented the light's path?
No. As light "falls" in a gravity field it gains energy just like anything thing else like a rock, but unlike the rock which gains that energy in the form of kinetic energy and thus speed, light gains the energy by increasing its frequency and maintaining a constant speed. Light falling into a gravity field blue-shifts and light climbing out red-shifts.
 
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Janus said:
No. As light "falls" in a gravity field it gains energy just like anything thing else like a rock, but unlike the rock which gains that energy in the form of kinetic energy and thus speed, light gains the energy by increasing its frequency and maintaining a constant speed. Light falling into a gravity field blue-shifts and light climbing out red-shifts.
Agree. Locally, light always moves at c. But since Edriven speaks of gravitational lensing, he may have in mind a global perspective. From that perspective, light always moves at c, but the length of a path from source to receiver can be shorter going around a gravitational potential well than through the well. In an intuitive (but not properly stated) sense, one might say that high gravitational fields slow light down rather than speeding it up.
 
Edriven said:
Could the speed of light be accelerated by a huge gravitational field? For example, we know light doesn't escape a black hole and is strong enough to cause lensing, therefore could it accelerate light if it complemented the light's path?

No. There's no acceleration here. The reason light doesn't escape from a black hole is that light always travels in a straight line (actually, a particular kind of straight line called a "light-like geodesic", but we can skip that complexity for now). Inside a black hole all such straight-line paths lead into the central singularity, and none lead outside of the black hole.

Gravitational lensing happens because outside the black hole, there are multiple such straight-line paths from the light source to the observer's eyes. If the paths are of approximately equal length, the light from multiple paths gets to our eyes at the approximately the same time and we see multiple images.

In some situations these paths will not all have the same length, and then the light will take different amounts of time to traverse the different paths. That can lead one to think that because the light took a different amount of time to get from here there, its speed must have been affected by gravity - but that is an illusion. Consider point A on the Earth's equator, and point B 1000 kilometers to the east. My airplane takes two hours to get from A to B, so we conclude that it flies at 500 km/hr. However, if I were to fly west from point A, the journey would take about 80 hours; but we wouldn't conclude from this that the airplane moves at only 12.5 kilometers/hr when it's flying west, we'd conclude that the statement "the straight-line distance between A and B is 1000 kilometers" requires some qualification. Note that we only have this problem because we're dealing with straight lines on a curved surface - in flat space there is only one straight-line path between any two points, so no ambiguity when we speak about the distance between the points.

(Be warned that in the discussion above I am being sloppy casual about the difference between three-dimensional space and four-dimensional space-time. Sometimes there' no substitute for knowing the math).
 
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