Is it possible for life to exist on a star?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of life existing on stars, particularly focusing on brown dwarfs and other stellar bodies. Participants explore various speculative ideas, including the nature of life and intelligence, and reference science fiction narratives that address these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that extraterrestrial life typically implies planetary biota, questioning the potential for life on stars like brown dwarfs.
  • Others argue that the chemistry necessary for life as we understand it cannot function at the high temperatures found on brown dwarf surfaces, deeming further speculation as unfounded.
  • A participant humorously references a joke about landing on the sun, indicating a light-hearted approach to the topic.
  • Several participants mention science fiction stories that propose the idea of stars being inhabited by plasma-based creatures, raising philosophical questions about the definition of life and intelligence.
  • There is a discussion about whether non-biological systems could create conditions for awareness, with some expressing uncertainty about the criteria for life.
  • One participant notes that while stars may not be considered alive, they do reproduce, adding complexity to the definition of life.
  • Another participant discusses the self-organization of plasmas and contrasts chemical life on Earth with theoretical life on stars, suggesting that energy sourcing is less of a concern in stellar environments.
  • References to specific brown dwarfs, such as Gliese 229B, are made to illustrate the conditions that challenge the existence of life as we know it.
  • Some participants share their enjoyment of science fiction works that explore these themes, indicating a cultural interest in the intersection of science and speculative fiction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the possibility of life on stars. While some agree on the limitations imposed by temperature and chemistry, others explore speculative ideas without resolution.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of life, the conditions required for its existence, and the definitions of awareness and intelligence. These assumptions remain unresolved and are subject to interpretation.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in astrobiology, the philosophy of life, speculative fiction, and the intersection of science and imagination may find this discussion engaging.

Loren Booda
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Extraterrestrial life usually implies planetary biota. What about that on stars like brown dwarfs?
 
Biology news on Phys.org
Chemistry that we know as needed for life won't work in temperatures involved on brown dwarf surfaces. Anything else is just a speculation.
 
This reminds me of the old joke about a planned mission to the sun. How can you land on the sun? You go at night.
 
There was a SF short story built around the idea that there stars are inhabited creatures made of plasma, and ball lightnings are just the simplest versions of these creatures.

Not sure if it was written in Polish, or translated to Polish, I think I have read it about 30 years ago.
 
Borek said:
There was a SF short story built around the idea that there stars are inhabited creatures made of plasma, and ball lightnings are just the simplest versions of these creatures.

Not sure if it was written in Polish, or translated to Polish, I think I have read it about 30 years ago.

In practical terms, it is a "what is life" question. The deeper and completely speculative abyss is the question of the requirements for intelligence. Could non-biological systems produce the conditions necessary for awareness to emerge [or however you want to define life in that sense]? The short answer: We have no idea. No such thing has ever been observed - a philosophical discussion at best.
 
Ivan Seeking said:
In practical terms, it is a "what is life" question. The deeper and completely speculative abyss is the question of the requirements for intelligence. Could non-biological systems produce the conditions necessary for awareness to emerge [or however you want to define life in that sense]? The short answer: We have no idea. No such thing has ever been observed - a philosophical discussion at best.

Yes, awareness. For example, trees are aware. Sort of.

There's no single criterion for what is considered 'alive' just for things on earth, so trying to decide whether ball lightning is alive would probably be impossible unless it tells us it is
 
I wouldn't say that the stars themselves are alive. However, they do reproduce.
 
Loren Booda said:
Extraterrestrial life usually implies planetary biota. What about that on stars like brown dwarfs?

Borek said:
Chemistry that we know as needed for life won't work in temperatures involved on brown dwarf surfaces. Anything else is just a speculation.
Right, electronic chemistry is out. So is there any sense in which plasmas could be said to self organize? Plasmas certainly do things that seem cohesive to the eye, if briefly so. One advantage of chemical life on Earth over theoretical solar 'life' is that the former is constantly consumed with a search for an energy source. That's not a problem on a star.
 
Borek said:
There was a SF short story built around the idea that there stars are inhabited creatures made of plasma, and ball lightnings are just the simplest versions of these creatures.

Not sure if it was written in Polish, or translated to Polish, I think I have read it about 30 years ago.

I've seen that concept presented a few times, including the character "Trance Gemini" on the "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda" TV series. If one of the ones that I saw originated in Poland, it would have to have been written by Stanislaw Lem. He's the only Polish writer whose material I have read.
Dr. Robert Forward wrote a really cool novel entitled "Dragon's Egg" that details a complete technological civilization evolving on the surface of a neutron star. There is also a sequel called "Starquake". They're really quite brain-stimulating as well as highly entertaining.
 
  • #10
Borek said:
Chemistry that we know as needed for life won't work in temperatures involved on brown dwarf surfaces. Anything else is just a speculation.

Adding to Borek's comment - "Gliese 229B is a brown dwarf orbiting the star; although it is too small to sustain hydrogen-burning nuclear fusion, with a mass of 20 to 50 times that of Jupiter it is still too massive to be a planet. Gliese 229B was the first confirmed substellar mass object. This object has a surface temperature of 950 K."
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_229B

and http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=com_article&access=doi&doi=10.1051/0004-6361:20078229&Itemid=129"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #11
Danger said:
Dr. Robert Forward wrote a really cool novel entitled "Dragon's Egg" that details a complete technological civilization evolving on the surface of a neutron star. There is also a sequel called "Starquake". They're really quite brain-stimulating as well as highly entertaining.

I read both of them a long time ago. They were quite good.
 

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