Counting Radial Nodes between Orbitals with Same l

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of counting radial nodes in atomic orbitals, specifically focusing on why only the radial nodes between subshells with the same orbital angular momentum quantum number (l) are considered. The inquiry includes examples involving 3p, 2p, and 1s orbitals.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the rationale behind counting only the radial nodes between orbitals with the same l, suggesting that additional nodes might exist between different l subshells.
  • Another participant explains that the radial equation is solved for a specific value of l, indicating that the solutions depend on the condition that n > l, which affects the number of nodes.
  • A follow-up inquiry seeks to understand the physical significance of why radial nodes are created only for subshells with the same l.
  • A response reiterates that the radial equation yields solutions for each l, leading to a series of solutions that display an increasing number of nodes, but does not clarify the physical meaning behind this.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and significance of radial nodes between orbitals of different l values. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the physical implications of these nodes.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence of the radial wave functions on the quantum number l and the condition n > l, but does not delve into the implications of these relationships.

sams
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Dear Everyone,

Could anyone explain why we count only the number of radial nodes between the subshells that have the same orbital angular momentum l ?

For example, 3p-orbitals have 1 radial node that exists between the 3p- and 2p-orbitals.
Shouldn't be there additional radial nodes that exist between the 3p- and 2s-orbitals and between the 3p- and 1s-orbitals?

Thank you so much for your help...
 
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When the radial equation is solved, it is for a given value of ##l##. Solutions are found under the condition that ##n > l##. Hence, for ##l=1##, the first radial wave function is 2p, and thus has 0 node; the second wf is 3p, and has 1 node, etc.

For ##l=0##, the first radial wave function, 1s, has no nodes, just like the 2p, so you can't use the number of nodes to compare the wave functions for different ##l##.
 
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DrClaude said:
you can't use the number of nodes to compare the wave functions for different ##l##.

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. But what is the reason behind this comparison? In other words, is there any physical meaning that cause the radial nodes to be created only for same orbital angular momentum l subshells?
 
sams said:
Thank you so much for your detailed reply. But what is the reason behind this comparison? In other words, is there any physical meaning that cause the radial nodes to be created only for same orbital angular momentum l subshells?
I said it already: because the radial equation
$$
- \frac{\hbar^2}{2 \mu} \nabla^2 R(r) + \left[ - \frac{Z e^2}{2 \pi \epsilon_0 r} + \frac{l (l+1) \hbar^2}{2 \mu r^2} \right] R(r) = R(r)
$$
is solved for a given value of ##l##. You get a series of solutions ##R_{n,l}## with ##n>l## for each value of ##l##, and it is those solutions that display the usual increasing number of nodes.
 
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