Curl of a vector in a NON-orthogonal curvilinear coordinate system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating the curl of a vector in a non-orthogonal curvilinear coordinate system in three dimensions. Participants explore definitions and formulations related to the curl and the exterior derivative, particularly in the context of non-standard metrics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Dirk, seeks guidance on computing the curl of a vector in a non-orthogonal curvilinear coordinate system, noting the lack of available information on this topic.
  • Another participant suggests that the exterior derivative of a covariant vector is a more natural definition than curl, which is limited to three dimensions, and provides a formula for it.
  • A follow-up question from Dirk inquires about the potential need for scaling within the exterior derivative, proposing a specific form that includes scaling factors.
  • A different participant responds that the definition of the exterior derivative remains consistent across coordinate systems, emphasizing the importance of distinguishing between covariant and contravariant vectors and mentioning factors related to the Hodge dual.
  • One participant provides a modified formula for the curl, indicating a specific form that includes the determinant of the metric.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of scaling factors within the exterior derivative and the appropriate formulation of the curl in non-orthogonal coordinates. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding covariant versus contravariant vectors and the implications of different conventions on the factors used in the Hodge dual. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions regarding the definitions used.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in advanced vector calculus, particularly in non-orthogonal coordinate systems, as well as for individuals exploring the mathematical foundations of differential geometry.

MasterD
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Hi,

I have a certain NON-orthogonal curvilinear coordinate system in 3D (in the metric only g_{13}=g_{23}=g_{31}=g_{32}=0) and I want to take the curl (\nabla\times\mathbf{v}) of a vector.

Any idea on how to do this? The only information I can find is about taking the curl of a vector in an orthogonal curvilinear coordinate system.

Very much thanks in advance for any insights.

Dirk
 
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The thing that's more natural to define than curl (ie, it's defined in any dimension, where as curl is only defined in 3D) is what's called the exterior derivative of a (covariant) vector. It's defined by (in any coordinate system):

(dv)_{ij} = \partial_i v_j - \partial_j v_i

The curl is then the "Hodge dual" of this, defined by:

(\nabla \times v)^i = \sqrt{g} \epsilon^{ijk} (dv)_{jk}

where g is the determinant of the metric, and \epsilon^{ijk} is the Levi-civita symbol. I might have some factors missing, but you can check this by computing simple cases.
 
Ok; thanks a lot; I will look further into this.

One more question: Shouldn't there be any scaling WITHIN the exterior derivative?

Something like: (dv)_{ij}=\frac{1}{h_1}\partial_i h_1 v_j - \frac{1}{h_2}\partial_j h_2 v_i ?
 
No, the definition of the exterior derivative takes the same form in all coordinate systems. That's what's nice about it. But you need to be careful about covariant vs. contravariant vectors, and there are some constant factors associated with the Hodge dual (these depend partly on convention, but in this case you'll need to pick them to match up with the usual definition of curl). Look up the wikipedia article on curl, it has a more explicit version of the formula I mentioned.
 
<br /> (\nabla \times v)^i = \frac{1}{\sqrt{g}} \epsilon^{ijk} (dv)_{jk} <br />

- in a coordinate basis.
 

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