Cylindrical capacitor with varying dielectric

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a long cylindrical coaxial capacitor with an inner conductor of radius a and an outer conductor of radius b, featuring a dielectric with a varying relative electric permittivity ε(r). The original poster seeks to determine the electric field inside the capacitor while ensuring that the energy density remains constant.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the use of Gauss's law and the relationship between the electric field and the dielectric constant. There are attempts to derive a differential equation for ε(r) based on the energy density condition. Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of their findings, particularly regarding the constancy of E and ε.

Discussion Status

Several participants have provided guidance on using Gauss's law in both differential and integral forms to approach the problem. There are ongoing discussions about the correct application of divergence in cylindrical coordinates and the implications of the derived equations. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, with no explicit consensus reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of ensuring the energy density remains constant while deriving the electric field. There are mentions of potential errors in the application of mathematical principles, particularly regarding the divergence of functions in cylindrical coordinates.

brainslush
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Homework Statement



Consider a long cylindrical coaxial capacitor with an inner conductor of radius a, and outer conductor of radius b, and a dielectric with a relative electric permittivity or dielectric ε(r), varying with the cylindrical radius. The capacitor is charged to the voltage V. Choose the radial dependence of ε(r) such that the energy density in the capacitor is constant.
Calculate the electric field inside the capacitor.

Homework Equations


Energy density equation

The Attempt at a Solution


from the energy density eq. which is defined by u = \frac{1}{2} \textbf{E} \circ \textbf{D} we get that
1/ε(r) \propto \left| \textbf{E} \right|^{2}

\Phi(b) - \Phi(a) = V

Honestly I'm not quite sure which ansatz one can use. I was trying to solve it with the Gauss's law but didn't find a satisfying solution.
 
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You might try using the basic equation \cdotD = \cdot(εE) = \rho along with the energy condition ε(r)E2 = constant to get a differential equation for ε(r).

ρ represents the free charge density which would be zero between the plates.
 
I think Gauss' Law for dielectrics is probably the easiest way to go here. You say you did not get a satisfying answer...can you post your attempt so we can see where you may be going wrong?
 
brainslush,

Take gabbagabbahey's advice! My suggestion will get you there, but not as easily.:redface:
 
\nabla \circ \textbf{D} = \epsilon (\nabla \circ \textbf{E}) + (\nabla \circ \epsilon) \textbf{E} = 0

Now this gives the diferential eq. (we only care about the radial direction)

\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} \epsilon (r)}{\epsilon (r)} = -\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial r} E(r)}{E(r)}

which then resolves into

\epsilon = \frac{c}{\left|E\right|}

Which somewhat makes no sense to me, since this would imply that E is constant and therefore epsilon is constant. I probably messed something up.
 
brainslush said:
\nabla \circ \textbf{D} = \epsilon (\nabla \circ \textbf{E}) + (\nabla \circ \epsilon) \textbf{E} = 0

Now this gives the diferential eq. (we only care about the radial direction)

\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} \epsilon (r)}{\epsilon (r)} = -\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial r} E(r)}{E(r)}

Your equation is wrong. Check out divergence in cylindrical coordinates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergence

Anyway, it would be easier to use Gauss' Theorem for the displacement vector D. Edit: in integral form...

ehild
 
Last edited:
ε
brainslush said:
\nabla \circ \textbf{D} = \epsilon (\nabla \circ \textbf{E}) + (\nabla \circ \epsilon) \textbf{E} = 0

Now this gives the diferential eq. (we only care about the radial direction)

\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} \epsilon (r)}{\epsilon (r)} = -\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial r} E(r)}{E(r)}

which then resolves into

\epsilon = \frac{c}{\left|E\right|}

Which somewhat makes no sense to me, since this would imply that E is constant and therefore epsilon is constant. I probably messed something up.

Sorry for leading you off onto this path! If you really want to do it this way, then as echild pointed out you need to express the divergence in cylindrical coordinates. [(By the way, in the last term of your first equation you should have a gradiant of ε rather than a divergence (which wouldn't make sense).] Anyway, it is easier to first solve the differential equation ∇\cdotD = 0 for D in the region between the plates and then relate E to D via the dielectric constant. You can then discover the functional form of ε by the requirement of constant energy density. This avoids having to find a differential equation for ε(r), although it's not particularly difficult to do so.

Of course ∇\cdotD = ρ is just the differential form of Gauss' law for D. The integral form of Gauss' law for D will allow you to easily find the form of D between the plates, as others have suggested.
 
Just to clarify, my suggestion was to use Gauss' Law in integral form. Using it in differential form is also very easy provided you are comfortable with taking the divergence of a function in cylindrical coordinates - if you just apply the divergence directly to the product \mathbf{D}=\epsilon(r)E(r)\hat{r} without expanding it using the product rule, the differential equation you get will be trivial to solve.
 
Of course...

\nabla \circ (\epsilon \textbf{E}) = (\nabla \epsilon) \circ \textbf{E} + \epsilon (\nabla \circ \textbf{E}) \Rightarrow

\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} \epsilon (\rho)}{\epsilon (\rho)} = -\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} (\rho E(\rho))}{\rho E(\rho)} = -\frac{1}{\rho}-\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} E(\rho)}{E(\rho)} \Rightarrow

\epsilon = \frac{c_{0}}{\rho \left| E(\rho) \right|} by using the condition \epsilon \propto \frac{1}{\left| \textbf{E} \right|^{2}} we get

\epsilon = \left(\frac{c_{1}}{\rho}\right)^{2}

So we can say that E \propto \rho

then we can use \int_{a}^{b} E d\rho = V = \int_{a}^{b} c \rho d\rho

to get c = \frac{2V}{b^{2}-a^{2}}

E = \frac{2V \rho}{a^{2}-b^{2}}
 
  • #10
brainslush said:
Of course...

\nabla \circ (\epsilon \textbf{E}) = (\nabla \epsilon) \circ \textbf{E} + \epsilon (\nabla \circ \textbf{E}) \Rightarrow

\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} \epsilon (\rho)}{\epsilon (\rho)} = -\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} (\rho E(\rho))}{\rho E(\rho)} = -\frac{1}{\rho}-\frac{\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho} E(\rho)}{E(\rho)} \Rightarrow

\epsilon = \frac{c_{0}}{\rho \left| E(\rho) \right|} by using the condition \epsilon \propto \frac{1}{\left| \textbf{E} \right|^{2}} we get

\epsilon = \left(\frac{c_{1}}{\rho}\right)^{2}

So we can say that E \propto \rho

then we can use \int_{a}^{b} E d\rho = V = \int_{a}^{b} c \rho d\rho

to get c = \frac{2V}{b^{2}-a^{2}}

E = \frac{2V \rho}{a^{2}-b^{2}}

Looks good. Note that you could also write ∇\cdot(εE) = 0 as \frac{1}{ρ}\frac{d(ρεE)}{dρ} = 0 which immediately gives ρεE = co
 
  • #11
Thanks for the help
 
  • #12
brainslush said:
\int_{a}^{b} E d\rho = V = \int_{a}^{b} c \rho d\rho

Careful with your signs :wink:
 

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