D'Alembert operator is commute covariant derivative?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the commutation properties of the D'Alembert operator and covariant derivatives, particularly whether the expression ##D_α D_β D^β F_{ab} = D_β D^β D_α F_{ab}## holds true. Participants explore the implications of these properties in the context of the electromagnetic field tensor and seek relevant sources for further understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the equality ##D_α D_β D^β F_{ab} = D_β D^β D_α F_{ab}## is valid and seeks sources for verification.
  • Another participant rephrases the question in terms of the D'Alembert operator, asking if ##\nabla_\mu\Box F_{ab} = \Box \nabla_\mu F_{ab}## and suggests checking the commutator ##[\nabla_\mu, \nabla_\nu]##.
  • A later reply confirms the focus on the equality ##∇_μ∇_ν∇^νF_{ab}=∇_ν∇^ν∇_μF_{ab}##, indicating that ##F_{ab}## refers to the electromagnetic field tensor.
  • Another participant proposes a method to evaluate the commutation by expanding the commutator and considering metric compatibility, suggesting that this approach is standard in many texts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the validity of the commutation properties, and no consensus is reached regarding the equality of the expressions involving the D'Alembert operator and covariant derivatives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need to understand metric compatibility and the commutator of covariant derivatives, indicating that these concepts are crucial for resolving the posed question. There are mentions of specific resources that may provide further insights, but no definitive conclusions are drawn.

dhalilsim
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For example:

D_α D_β D^β F_ab= D_β D^β D_α F_ab <br /> <br /> is true or not? Are there any books sources?
 
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So you are asking whether ##\nabla_\mu\Box F_{ab} = \Box \nabla_\mu F_{ab}##?
Here I wrote ##\Box = g^{\mu\nu}\nabla_\mu\nabla_\nu## following modern notation.

Have you tried finding the commutator? What is ##[ \nabla_\mu, \nabla_\nu]## equal too?

The (free) lecture notes by Carroll might have what you are looking for. At the least they introduce all you need to calculate the commutator. (I know the book that built on those does have the identities you need)
 
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JorisL said:
So you are asking whether ##\nabla_\mu\Box F_{ab} = \Box \nabla_\mu F_{ab}##?
Here I wrote ##\Box = g^{\mu\nu}\nabla_\mu\nabla_\nu## following modern notation.

Have you tried finding the commutator? What is ##[ \nabla_\mu, \nabla_\nu]## equal too?

The (free) lecture notes by Carroll might have what you are looking for. At the least they introduce all you need to calculate the commutator. (I know the book that built on those does have the identities you need)
Very thanks to your reply.
Yes my question is whether or not
##∇_μ∇_ν∇^νF_{ab}=∇_ν∇^ν∇_μF_{ab}## where ##F_{ab}## is electromagnetic field tensor.
Can I simply think,
so d'Alembert operator ##∇_ν∇^ν## is invariant,
then Can I immediately write ##[∇_μ,\Box]=0##??
 
The easiest way to do this is the following ##[\nabla_\mu, \Box] = [\nabla_\mu,g^{\alpha\beta}\nabla_\alpha\nabla_\beta] = \ldots##
Now I'll try to guide you through this by asking you some other questions.

##\nabla_\mu g^{\alpha\beta}## is equal to ... (does metric compatibility ring a bell?)
If you use this you can write the first equation as ##g^{\alpha\beta}[\nabla_\mu,\nabla_\alpha\nabla_\beta]##.

Now we need to know how we can write a commutator of the form ##[A,BC]## in terms of ##[A,B]## and ##[A,C]##.
The easiest way to do this is expanding the total commutator and looking for the other commutators. It's a standard property that can be found in a lot of places.

Finally look up what ##[\nabla_\mu,\nabla_\nu]## is equal to. This can be found in every text on GR, here is a free link http://preposterousuniverse.com/grnotes/grnotes-three.pdf
 
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