Is Covariant Derivative Notation Misleading in Vector Calculus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation used for covariant derivatives in vector calculus, specifically the implications of writing ##\nabla_\mu V^\nu## versus alternative notations. Participants explore the clarity and consistency of these notations in the context of vector and tensor calculus, addressing both theoretical and practical aspects of the notation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern that the notation ##\nabla_\mu V^\nu## suggests operating on the component ##V^\nu## rather than the vector ##V## itself, leading to confusion.
  • One participant proposes an alternative notation ##(\nabla_\mu V)^\nu## to clarify that the covariant derivative is applied to the vector before taking components.
  • Another participant argues that the result of applying the covariant derivative to a vector is a (1, 1) tensor, not merely another vector, highlighting the distinction between vectors and their components.
  • There is a discussion about whether the connection can be viewed as a map from two vector fields to a vector field, with differing opinions on the implications of this perspective.
  • Some participants note that while the notation may be cumbersome, it is consistent with existing conventions, particularly in relation to partial derivatives.
  • Concerns are raised about the notation obscuring the distinction between vectors and their components, with some advocating for clearer representations.
  • Participants debate the consistency of expressing the covariant derivative of basis vectors versus other vectors, with differing views on the implications of notation choices.
  • One participant emphasizes that connection coefficients arise from taking the covariant derivative of basis vectors, which change from point to point, adding another layer of complexity to the notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best notation for covariant derivatives. There are multiple competing views regarding the clarity and consistency of existing notations, as well as differing interpretations of the implications of these notations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the notation that may lead to confusion, particularly regarding the distinction between vectors and their components, as well as the nature of the covariant derivative as a tensor operation. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the understanding of these concepts.

  • #121
cianfa72 said:
Is that correct now ?
Looks good.
 
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  • #122
Orodruin said:
Looks good.
And what was wrong with my derivation? I don't see any difference.
 
  • #123
vanhees71 said:
And what was wrong with my derivation? I don't see any difference.
I never said anything was wrong with it. I complained about #118.
 
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  • #124
Orodruin said:
I never said anything was wrong with it. I complained about #118.
Yep, my fault sorry.
 
  • #125
dextercioby said:
I cannot believe there are 100 posts here about a simple pure ... issue
This, unfortunately, has become a characteristic feature in here.
dextercioby said:
In mathematics ##\nabla_{\mu}V^{\nu}## is ill defined
No, it is not. In mathematics we define things. So, on a generic tensor (density) T_{A} \equiv T^{\rho_{1}\cdots \rho_{r}}_{{}\tau_{1}\cdots \tau_{s}}, I define the operator \nabla_{\mu} by the rule \nabla_{\mu}T_{A} \equiv \partial_{\mu}T_{A} + \Gamma^{\lambda}_{\mu\nu}[T_{A}]^{\nu}{}_{\lambda} , where [T^{\rho_{1} \cdots \rho_{r}}_{{}\tau_{1}\cdots \tau_{s}}]^{\nu}{}_{\lambda} \equiv \sum_{p = 1}^{r} \delta^{\rho_{p}}_{\lambda}T^{\rho_{1}\cdots \rho_{p-1}\nu \rho_{p+1}\cdots \rho_{r}}_{{}{}{}{}\tau_{1} \cdots \tau_{s}} - \sum_{q = 1}^{s} \delta^{\nu}_{\tau_{q}}T^{\rho_{1}\cdots \rho_{r}}_{{}\tau_{1}\cdots \tau_{q-1}\lambda \tau_{q+1}\cdots \tau_{s}} - \delta^{\nu}_{\lambda}T_{A} , with last term is absent when T_{A} is not a density.

Remaks: (1) Notice that [T_{A}]^{\nu}{}_{\lambda} \epsilon^{\lambda}{}_{\nu} is nothing but the change of T_{A} under an infinitesimal \mbox{GL}(n) transformation parametrized by \epsilon^{\lambda}{}_{\nu}. So, for any object \Psi, we define [\Psi]^{\nu}{}_{\lambda} by its infinitesimal transformation under the general linear group \mbox{GL}(n).

(2) You can show that the (above defined) operator \nabla_{\mu} satisfies the Leibniz rule.
 
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