Dark energy is intrinsic to the space itself

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of dark energy and its relationship to the expansion of the universe. Participants explore whether dark energy is intrinsic to space itself and how its density remains constant despite the universe's expansion. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and challenges to common intuitions about space and motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that dark energy behaves as a type of energy intrinsic to space, leading to a constant density as the universe expands.
  • Others argue that the expansion of the universe does not imply that new space is "created" from anything outside the universe, as there is no external volume to draw from.
  • A participant suggests that space is not a material entity that needs to be created, but rather a concept of distance that increases as objects move apart.
  • Some participants question the assumption of constant dark energy density, noting that while it is a common model, alternative models exist where dark energy may not have a constant density.
  • A later reply challenges the idea of discrete space, suggesting that such speculation is not appropriate for the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of space and dark energy, with no consensus reached on whether space is discrete or continuous, or on the implications of dark energy's properties.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on assumptions about the nature of space and dark energy that are not universally accepted. The discussion includes speculative ideas that have not been substantiated within the context of the conversation.

PainterGuy
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Hi,

I was reading the following article.

Dark energy is thought to be different, though. Rather than being a type of particle, it appears to behave as though it were a type of energy intrinsic to space itself. As space expands, the dark energy density remains constant, rather than decreasing or increasing. As a result, after the Universe has expanded for long enough, dark energy comes to dominate the energy budget of the Universe. As time goes on, it becomes progressively more dominant over the other components, leading to the accelerated expansion we observe today.
Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...t-which-would-lead-to-a-revolution-in-physics

How come the density of dark energy remains constant? Yes, if it's intrinsic to the space itself and more space is created when the expansion takes place then it's understandable that its density should remain constant. But then the question is where does the extra new space come from? What creates it? Could you please help me with it? Thanks, in advance?
 
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PainterGuy said:
But then the question is where does the extra new space come from? What creates it?
The whole universe is expanding. That means that its volume increases. But there is nothing outside the universe, so the volume doesn't "come from" anything.
 
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PainterGuy said:
But then the question is where does the extra new space come from? What creates it?
Space is not a material thing that needs to be created. It's just a bit more general notion of distance between objects. When you separate two things, one way or another, you don't create anything in-between them. Yet, there is now 'more' space.
With dark energy, what confounds is our everyday intuition that stationary things don't start moving apart unless there's some unbalanced force involved. But it doesn't have to be true. It might just be that it is natural for things to accelerate apart, and the faster the more distant they are. But it is such a very, very, very tiny effect that it gets swamped by local forces. So we have no common-sense reason to think that it is a natural state of affairs to see distant objects accelerate away. And yet, on large enough scales, that's exactly what is observed.
Once we grant that, we can turn the question on its head, and instead of asking where does the thing 'pushing' objects apart come from, we can ask why certain things don't accelerate apart - like they should be doing. And that's much easier to answer with more palatable intuitions - it's because this system is bound by gravity, this system is bound by electromagnetic forces, this system is bound by... etc.
 
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PainterGuy said:
I was reading the following article.
That article is a pop science article, and is not a good source if you actually want to learn the science.

PainterGuy said:
How come the density of dark energy remains constant?
We assume it is constant in our models because we have no evidence to suggest that it isn't, and it being constant is the simplest possibility. But it is not the only possibility; one can construct models in which there is a scalar field that acts like "dark energy" in its effects (causing accelerated expansion of the universe) but does not have a constant density everywhere.
 
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Bandersnatch said:
Space is not a material thing that needs to be created. It's just a bit more general notion of distance between objects. When you separate two things, one way or another, you don't create anything in-between them. Yet, there is now 'more' space.

Thank you.

But if the space is discrete and made up of infinitesimally small particles or whatever, then more space would mean more discrete particles. I was thinking more along these lines earlier. Could you please guide me?
 
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PainterGuy said:
if the space is discrete and made up of infinitesimally small particles or whatever
This is personal speculation and is off limits here.
 
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