De-excitation of a moving atom with photon emission

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the de-excitation of a moving atom with photon emission, involving concepts from relativistic physics, specifically four-momentum conservation and energy-momentum relationships. Participants are exploring the implications of these principles in the context of a problem that requires calculating the relationship between the final speed of the atom and the angle of photon emission.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to derive expressions for the final speed of the atom as a function of various parameters, including angle and masses. Some express frustration with the complexity of the calculations and the time constraints of the problem.

Discussion Status

There are multiple lines of reasoning being explored, with some participants suggesting alternative approaches and questioning the clarity of the problem statement. Guidance has been offered regarding the use of conservation laws and the transformation of frames, but no consensus has been reached on a specific method or solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of performing calculations under exam conditions, with some expressing concern about the ambiguity in the problem's requirements regarding the relationship between the final speed and the angle of emission.

Frostman
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Homework Statement
An excited atom of mass ##M## moving with velocity ##v## in the laboratory system decays into a state of mass ##m## by emitting a photon.
Calculate the relationship between the final speed ##v'## of the atom and the angle ##\theta##, formed by the directions of flight of the final particles.
Relevant Equations
Conservation of the four-momentum
Schermata 2021-07-07 alle 17.18.24.png


The information I have are the following:

##p^\mu=(E, p, 0, 0)##
##p'^\mu=(E', p'\cos\beta, -p'\sin\beta,0)##
##k^\mu=\tilde{E}(1, \cos\alpha, \sin\alpha, 0)##

Where:

##E=\sqrt{M^2+p^2}##
##E'=\sqrt{m^2+p'^2}##

Using the conservation of the four-momentum

##p^\mu=p'^\mu+k^\mu##
##(p^\mu)^2=(p'^\mu+k^\mu)^2##
##M^2=m^2+0+2(E'\tilde{E}-p'\tilde{E}\cos\theta)##
##\frac{M^2-m^2}{2(E-E')}=E'-p'\cos\theta##
##\frac{M^2-m^2}{2E'(E-E')}=1-v'\cos\theta##

Now I should replace the values of ##E'## and ##E##, but I don't know if this is the correct way, after that I would have all the roots of their definitions and I would have to rework the formula to write ##v'## as a function of ##\theta##, ##M##, ##m## and ##v##.

What do you think?
 
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Why do not you proceed to get formula of ##v'(\theta,M,m,v)## first then investigate it ?
 
I tried, but the more I go I get lost in the accounts. I'm not even rewriting what I wrote here on the forum because it seems to me just a waste of time, but to show that I tried to do the math I am attaching the spreadsheets.

As this is an exam to be done along with 2 exercises in 2 hours, it's strange that I have to lose myself in so many accounts.

WhatsApp Image 2021-07-12 at 09.12.54.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-07-12 at 09.12.54 (1).jpeg
 
A tough calculation. I just try an introduction.
Energy conservation
\sqrt{P^2+(Mc)^2}=\sqrt{p^2+(mc)^2}+k...(1)
Momentum conservation
P=p \cos \alpha+k \cos\beta
0=p \sin \alpha + k \sin \beta
\theta=\alpha-\beta
so
p=-\frac{\sin\beta}{\sin\theta}Pk=\frac{\sin\alpha}{\sin\theta}P
with ##\beta<0<\alpha<\theta##. The formula
sin\theta=\sin\alpha \cos\beta - \cos \alpha \sin\beta would give
1=\frac{k}{P}\sqrt{1-\frac{p^2}{P^2}\sin^2\theta}+\frac{p}{P}\sqrt{1-\frac{k^2}{P^2}\sin^2\theta}
\frac{1}{\rho\kappa}=\sqrt{\frac{1}{\rho^2}-\sin^2\theta}+\sqrt{\frac{1}{\kappa^2}-\sin^2\theta}
where
\rho=\frac{p}{P}=\frac{mv}{MV}\sqrt{\frac{1-\frac{V^2}{c^2}}{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}
and from (1)
\kappa=\frac{k}{P}=\frac{\sqrt{P^2+(Mc)^2}-\sqrt{p^2+(mc)^2}}{P}=\frac{c}{V}\{1-\frac{m}{M}\sqrt{\frac{1-\frac{V^2}{c^2}}{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}\}
I hope it is correct and may help you check validation of your calculation.
 
Last edited:
I’m not too familiar with this stuff, but I’ll take a shot…

M and m are rest masses and we take c=1.
Let γ = 1/√(1 -v²) and let γ’ = 1/√(1 -v’²).
In the lab’ frame:
- the (initial) energy of M is γM
- the (final) energy of m is γ’m.
So the photon has energy γM - γ’m (and therefore its momentum is γM - γ’m).

In the lab’ frame, use xy axes oriented so that the photon is moving in the +x direction; this means that m is moving at angle θ anticlockwise with respect to the +x axis.

Therefore the photon’s momentum is γM - γ’ in the +x direction.
I.e. the photon’s 4-momentum is k = (γM - γ’m, γM - γ’m, 0, 0)

And m’s 4-momentum is: p = (γ’m, γ’mv’cosθ, γ’mv’sinθ, 0)
________________

Total 4-momentum after emission is P = k + p

P
= (γM – γ’m + γ’m, γM – γ’m + γ’mv’cosθ, γ’mv’sinθ, 0)
= (γM, γM + γ’m(v’cosθ -1), γ’mv’sinθ, 0)

Since the length-squared of the 4-momentun is Lorentz invariant:
P•P = M²
(γM, γM + γ’m(v’cosθ -1), γ’mv’sinθ, 0)•(γM, γM + γ’m(v’cosθ -1), γ’mv’sinθ, 0) = M²
(γM )² – [(γM + γ’m(v’cosθ -1))² + (γ’mv’sinθ)² + 0²] = M²

The question states “Calculate the relationship between the final speed v’ of the atom and the angle θ…” which is a bit ambiguous/vague. Technically, once we replace γ and γ’ by their definitions, the last equation (above) answers the question. If you want an equation for v', then it's now a (very nasty) exercise in algebra.

If I've misunderstood something, I would be more than happy if someone could correct me.
 
Steve4Physics said:
(γM )² – [(γM + γ’m(v’cosθ -1))² + (γ’mv’sinθ)² + 0²] = M²
I think this result is equivalent to the OP's result if ##E## and ##E'## in the OP's result are replaced by ##\gamma M## and ##\gamma' m##, respectively.

Steve4Physics said:
The question states “Calculate the relationship between the final speed v’ of the atom and the angle θ…” which is a bit ambiguous/vague. Technically, once we replace γ and γ’ by their definitions, the last equation (above) answers the question. If you want an equation for v', then it's now a (very nasty) exercise in algebra.
I tend to agree. Finding a relationship between ##v'## and ##\theta## does not necessarily imply that you have to express ##v'## explicitly as a function of ##\theta##.

( It wouldn't be hard to do the reverse; i.e. express ##\theta## as a function of ##v'##. )
 
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An alternative approach would be to find the energy and momentum in the rest frame of the (initial) atom and then transform back to the lab frame.
 

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