Dedekind Cut, as stated by Richard Dedekind

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Dedekind cuts, their historical context, and the contributions of Richard Dedekind and others to the understanding of this mathematical concept. Participants explore the modern treatment of Dedekind cuts, the relationship between lower and upper cuts, and seek resources for further study, particularly in relation to proof writing and foundational mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the credit for the modern treatment of Dedekind cuts, noting that lower and upper cuts can be interchanged in proofs.
  • Another participant suggests that the difficulty in finding Dedekind's original papers may stem from the fact that Dedekind cuts are named after him rather than being his original discovery.
  • References to Bertrand's work are made, with suggestions that he may have contributed significantly to the idea of Dedekind cuts.
  • A participant mentions finding a Dover translation of a reference related to Dedekind cuts, indicating a personal connection to the material.
  • There is a suggestion to look into Dedekind's publication "Continuity and Irrational Numbers" for further understanding of the topic.
  • One participant proposes that the modern presentation of Dedekind cuts aligns with Bertrand's spirit, while also recommending Carl Boyer's "A History Of Mathematics" for a broader historical perspective on numbers.
  • Another participant shares a link to a scholarly article that may provide additional insights.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the historical contributions to the concept of Dedekind cuts, with some attributing significant influence to Bertrand while acknowledging Dedekind's own work. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of these contributions and the sources of information available.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential for circular reasoning in proofs involving Dedekind cuts, particularly for those new to proof writing. There is also mention of the historical evolution of the concept of numbers, which may influence the understanding of Dedekind cuts.

MidgetDwarf
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Greetings. I was wondering if anyone knew who gets the credit for the modern treatment of Dedekind cuts using what are commonly called lower cuts or upper cuts. Since one can show that a lower/ upper cut characterizes the other, so we can just work freely with either lower or upper cuts, and show that that everything we proved using lower/upper holds for the other.

Moreover, does anyone know of a paper or link having Dedekind's original formulation in modern mathematical language? I have not been able to find a source for the above. I wanted to give a presentation to a local math club whose students have just begun proof writing, and thought this was a neat a neat activity for them to familiarize themselves with sets (proofs involving sets), inequalities, in general avoidance of circular reasoning. Ie., the proof of the Dedekind cut corresponding to the square root of 2, where it is a common to see a circular reasoning from those not experienced in proof.
 
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Your difficulty in finding any paper by Dedekind may be due to it being named in his honor as opposed to him having discovered it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedekind_cut

Wiki mentions Bertrand so he might a good lead.

in any event, reference 3 in the wiki article mentions Dedekind and his cut.
 
jedishrfu said:
Your difficulty in finding any paper by Dedekind may be due to it being named in his honor as opposed to him having discovered it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedekind_cut

Wiki mentions Bertrand so he might a good lead.

in any event, reference 3 in the wiki article mentions Dedekind and his cut.

Thank you. I somehow had the Dover translation go that reference in my personal library, but never knew it. Upon clicking the reference, I told myself it looked familiar. I will update this post with further information I found useful. I found three other sources that may be of interest to others.
 
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Bertrand worked on the idea but Dedekind also published some stuff about Dedekind cuts. Look for Continuity and Irrational Numbers.
 
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Office_Shredder said:
Bertrand worked on the idea but Dedekind also published some stuff about Dedekind cuts. Look for Continuity and Irrational Numbers.
From what I had gathered ( I can be wrong), is that the idea of Dedekind cuts (which are presented in books nowadays) is in the spirit of Bertrand.

Moreover, for an understanding of number consider Carl Boyer: A History Of Mathematics. To get a glimpse of how different cultures throughout the centuries approached the concept of what a number is, what numbers were known to them, and which ones they ignored or gave little importance too. Book 5 of Euclid (the one usually attributed to Exodus) talks about the Theory of Proportions. Now read that, then compare what is found in Continuity and Irrational numbers with Exodus's Theory Of Proportions.
 

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