Defining scalar product from norm

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties and definitions of scalar products derived from norms, particularly in the context of bilinear forms and the parallelogram identity. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical reasoning, and references to established theorems in the field.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines the Euclidean norm as |v|2 = g(v,v), questioning how to derive properties of g from the norm.
  • Another participant presents the parallelogram identity and cautions that the form of the inner product may not hold in all fields or under different conjugations, providing an example involving complex inner products.
  • A participant references the theorem of von Neumann and Jordan, inquiring about the complexity and availability of its proof.
  • Another participant provides links to articles that may contain relevant proofs and discusses the challenges of proving homogeneity in scalar products.
  • One participant challenges a previous assertion regarding a mathematical derivation, suggesting it may be incorrect and offers their own derivation as a counterpoint.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain mathematical derivations and the implications of the parallelogram law. There is no consensus on the correctness of the claims made, and multiple competing perspectives are present.

Contextual Notes

Some mathematical steps and assumptions remain unresolved, particularly regarding the application of the parallelogram law and the conditions under which certain identities hold.

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Euclidean norm is defined usually as|v|2= g(v,v), where g is a nondegenerate, positive definite, symmetric bilinear form. But how can make it backwards? What properties must norm have that g(v,w) = (|v+w|2 - |v|2 - |w|2)/2 be a positive definite, symmetric bilinear form?
 
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The parrallelogram identity
(1/2)(|x+y|^2+|x-y|^2)=|x|^2+|y|^2
Watch out
(1/2)(|v+w|^2 - |v|^2 - |w|^2)
is not the form of an inner product over other fields or with different conjugations
for example the complex inner product is
<v|w>=(1/2)(|v+w|^2 - |v|^2 - |w|^2)+(i/2)(|v+iw|^2 - |v|^2 - |w|^2)
where i*i=-1
 
Cool! Thanks! Now I see that this is a theorem of von Neumann and Jordan. Is the proof very long? I haven't found it anywhere, only remarks that it is complicated enough. Do you know if it is available somewhere online?
 
If you have access tohttp://www.jstor.org (perhaps from a school of library) you can access these

A Characterization of Inner Product Spaces
Neil Falkner
The American Mathematical Monthly, Vol. 100, No. 3 (Mar., 1993), pp. 246-249 (article consists of 4 pages)
Published by: Mathematical Association of America

On Inner Products in Linear, Metric Spaces
P. Jordan and J. V. Neumann
The Annals of Mathematics, Second Series, Vol. 36, No. 3 (Jul., 1935), pp. 719-723 (article consists of 5 pages)
Published by: Annals of Mathematics

or you could track down hardcopy at a univercity library.

The proof is a few pages, you may be able to do it yourself. Here is a start
4<x|y>+4<z|y>=2|x+y|^2+2|z+y|-2|x|^2-4|y|^2-2|z|^2
=|x+2y+z|^2+|x+y|^2-4|y|^2
=4<x+z|y>

Homogeneity is harder, it is obvious that
<r x|y>=r <x|y>
when r is rational
when r is real more is needed (like Cauchy-Swartz)
 
Thank you!
 
lurflurf said:
|x+2y+z|^2+|x+y|^2-4|y|^2
=4<x+z|y>

Sorry, but this seems false (subststitute for example y=z=0, x<>0).

I made a derivation, perhaps isn't too elegant, but I hope that good:

4&lt;x|y&gt;+4&lt;z|y&gt; applying the defiition of scalar product:

=2|x+y|^2+2|z+y|^2 -2|x|^2-4|y|^2-2|z|^2 applyig the parallelogram law to (x+y) and (z+y):

= |x+2y+z|^2 + |x-z|^2 -2|x|^2-4|y|^2-2|z|^2 applyig the parallelogram law to (x+y+z) and (y):

= 2|x+y+z|^2 - |x+z|^2 + 2|y|^2 + |x-z|^2 -2|x|^2-4|y|^2-2|z|^2 applyig the parallelogram law to x and z:

= 2|x+y+z|^2 - |x+z|^2 + 2|y|^2 + 2|x|^2 + 2|y|^2 - |x+z|^2 -2|x|^2-4|y|^2-2|z|^2

=2|x+y+z|^2-2|x+z|^2-2|y|^2 applying the defiition of scalar product:

=4&lt;x+z|y&gt;
 

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