Show that a bilinear form is an inner product

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a bilinear form defined on ℝⁿ and the conditions under which it qualifies as an inner product. Participants explore the bilinearity, symmetry, and nondegeneracy of the form, with a focus on demonstrating nondegeneracy through various approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a bilinear form g and seeks to prove its status as an inner product, having verified bilinearity and symmetry but questioning nondegeneracy.
  • Another participant argues that the defined form is not an inner product due to a counterexample where g(v,v) results in a negative value.
  • Some participants reference definitions from physics texts, stating that an inner product must be a nondegenerate symmetric bilinear form and suggest showing nondegeneracy by demonstrating the invertibility of the associated matrix.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of symmetry on the associated matrix, noting that symmetric matrices are diagonalizable and that non-degeneracy requires non-zero diagonal entries.
  • One participant proposes a method involving a specific choice of vector w to show that g(v,w) is non-zero for non-zero v.
  • A later reply discusses the diagonalization of symmetric bilinear forms and the relationship between the form's degeneracy and the dimension of the space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the bilinear form qualifies as an inner product, particularly regarding its nondegeneracy. There is no consensus on the validity of the original form or the methods proposed to demonstrate its properties.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the definitions of inner products and the properties of bilinear forms are not explicitly stated, leading to potential ambiguity in the discussion. The relationship between the matrix representation and the bilinear form's properties remains unresolved.

CasinelliG
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Hi, I have a bilinear form defined as g : ℝnxℝn->ℝ by g(v,w) = v1w1 + v2w2 + ... + vn-1wn-1 - vnwn

I have to show that g is an inner product, so I checked that is bilinear and symmetric, but how to show that it's nondegenerate too?
 
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The map you have defined is not an inner product. Let v = (0,0,\dots,0,1) and notice that g(v,v)=-1 < 0. Did you mean to write g(v,w)=v^1w^1 + \dots + v^nw^n?
 
Some physics texts define inner product as nondegenerate symmetric bilinear form.

To show this bilinear form is nondegenerate, write down its matrix and show it´s invertible (= nondegenerate).
 
Alesak said:
Some physics texts define inner product as nondegenerate symmetric bilinear form.

To show this bilinear form is nondegenerate, write down its matrix and show it´s invertible (= nondegenerate).

Yes, that's exactly the case. Now the book also says that g is nondegenerate if g(v, w) = 0 for all w in V implies v = 0 (in which V is an arbitrary vector space of dimension n ≥ 1).

How does this correlate to the existence of the inverse matrix?
 
Doesn't the symmetric part imply that the associated matrix (a_ij):=(q(vi,vj)) is symmetric. Then you have a symmetric matrix.

Symmetric matrices are diagonalizable, and non-degenerate means none of the diagonal entries is zero.
 
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Take a nonzero v. Then there is some vi that is nonzero. Consider w:=(0,...,0,1,0,...,0) where the 1 is in the ith place. Then g(v,w) is nonzero in both cases.

jgens: An inner product g such that g(v,v)>0 for all nonzero v is a particular case of an inner product called a euclidean inner product.
 
CasinelliG said:
How does this correlate to the existence of the inverse matrix?

Bacle2 said it. It can be also said in this way: every symmetric bilinear form can be diagonalized by succesively completing the square(try it!), until you´ve found a new basis for your vector space where the bilinear form is "diagonal", i.e. of the form x1y1 + x2y2 + ... + xkyk. If k is smaller than dimension of your space, you can easily see the bilinear form is degenerate(by example). In this case, it´s associated matrix is not invertible.
 

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