Definite Integral challenge #4

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating a specific definite integral involving powers of \(x\) and \(1-x\), with the stipulation that participants should not use beta or gamma functions. The focus is on finding a solution through elementary methods.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Participants are tasked with evaluating the integral expression without using beta or gamma functions.
  • Some participants humorously suggest the use of other functions, such as omega or alpha functions, which are also not permitted.
  • A participant emphasizes that the problem should be solved using elementary approaches.
  • Hints are provided, but the content of these hints is not detailed in the posts.
  • One participant expresses that they know the solution but prefers others to attempt it first.
  • Another participant points out that a specific user is using the prohibited beta function.
  • Multiple participants share suggested solutions, indicating a collaborative effort to solve the integral.
  • Expressions of appreciation for the solutions are noted, though some participants miss the ability to express thanks formally.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the constraints of the problem regarding the use of functions, but there is no consensus on the methods or solutions proposed, as multiple approaches are suggested and discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not resolved the integral, and the discussion includes various hints and proposed solutions without a definitive conclusion.

Saitama
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Evaluate:

$$2^{2009}\frac{\displaystyle \int_0^1 x^{1004}(1-x)^{1004}\,dx}{\displaystyle \int_0^1x^{1004}(1-x^{2010})^{1004}\,dx}$$

...of course without the use of beta or gamma functions. :p
 
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Pranav said:
...of course without the use of beta or gamma functions. :p

Can we use omega or alpha functions? :rolleyes:
 
I like Serena said:
Can we use omega or alpha functions? :rolleyes:

Nope. :P

I should have said that the problem is to be solved by elementary approaches.
 
Hint:

Integration by parts is a powerful tool.
 
Krizalid said:
Hint:

Integration by parts is a powerful tool.

Hi Krizalid!

This isn't a homework problem, can you please complete your solution? :rolleyes:
 
I know, it's just that I know the solution but I want other peoply to try it. :D
 
Let $\alpha = 1004$ and $\beta=2010$
I will try to calculate the integral:
\[I = 2^{\beta -1}\frac{\int_{0}^{1}x^\alpha (1-x)^\alpha dx}{\int_{0}^{1}x^\alpha (1-x^\beta )^\alpha dx}\]
Calculating the nominator:
\[\int_{0}^{1}x^\alpha (1-x)^\alpha dx = \left [ \frac{1}{\alpha +1}x^{\alpha +1}(1-x)^\alpha \right ]_{0}^{1}+\frac{\alpha }{\alpha +1}\int_{0}^{1}x^{\alpha+1}(1-x)^{\alpha -1}dx \\\\=\frac{\alpha }{\alpha +1}\int_{0}^{1}x^{\alpha+1}(1-x)^{\alpha -1}dx=\frac{\alpha}{\alpha+1}\left ( \left [ \frac{1}{\alpha+2}x^{\alpha+2}(1-x)^{\alpha-1} \right ]_{0}^{1} +\frac{\alpha-1}{\alpha+2}\int_{0}^{1}x^{\alpha+2}(1-x)^{\alpha-2}dx\right) \\\\=\frac{\alpha(\alpha-1)}{(\alpha+1)(\alpha+2)}\int_{0}^{1}x^{\alpha+2}(1-x)^{\alpha-2}dx = ... = \frac{\alpha!}{(\alpha+1)(\alpha+2)...(2\alpha+1)}=\frac{(\alpha!)^2}{(2\alpha+1)!}\]

Calculating the denominator:
\[\int_{0}^{1}x^\alpha (1-x^\beta)^\alpha dx = \left [ \frac{1}{\alpha +1}x^{\alpha +1}(1-x^\beta)^\alpha \right ]_{0}^{1}+\frac{\beta\alpha }{\alpha +1}\int_{0}^{1}x^{\alpha+\beta}(1-x^\beta)^{\alpha -1}dx \\\\=\frac{\beta\alpha }{\alpha +1}\int_{0}^{1}x^{\alpha+\beta}(1-x^\beta)^{\alpha -1}dx=\frac{\beta\alpha}{\alpha+1}\left ( \left [ \frac{1}{\alpha+\beta+1}x^{\alpha+\beta+1}(1-x^\beta)^{\alpha-1} \right ]_{0}^{1} +\frac{\beta(\alpha-1)}{\alpha+\beta+1}\int_{0}^{1}x^{\alpha+2\beta}(1-x)^{\alpha-2}dx\right) \\\\=\frac{\beta^2\alpha(\alpha-1)}{(\alpha+1)(\alpha+1+\beta)}\int_{0}^{1}x^{
\alpha+2\beta}(1-x^\beta)^{\alpha-2}dx\\\\ = \frac{\beta^3\alpha(\alpha-1)(\alpha-2)}{(\alpha+1)(\alpha+1+\beta)(\alpha+1+2\beta)} \int_{0}^{1}x^{\alpha+3\beta}(1-x^\beta)^{\alpha-3}dx= ... = \frac{\beta^{\alpha}\alpha!}{(\alpha+1)(\alpha+1+ \beta)(\alpha+1+2\beta)...(\alpha+1+\alpha\beta)}\]

Thus, the integral can be written:

\[I = 2^{\beta-1}\frac{(\alpha!)^2(\alpha+1)(\alpha+1+\beta)( \alpha+1+2\beta)...(\alpha+1+\alpha\beta)}{\beta^{\alpha}\alpha!(2\alpha+1)!}\]

$I$ can be reduced considerably:

\[I = 2^{\beta-1}\frac{(\alpha!)^2(\alpha+1)(\alpha+1+\beta)(
\alpha+1+2\beta)...(\alpha+1+\alpha\beta)}{\beta^{\alpha}\alpha!(2\alpha+1)!} \\\\=2^{\beta-1}\frac{(\alpha+1)!\frac{3}{2}\frac{5}{2}\frac{7}{2}...\frac{2\alpha+1}{2}}{(2\alpha+1)!}=2^{\alpha+1}\frac{(\alpha+1)!(2\alpha+1)!}{(2\alpha+1)!2^{
\alpha}\alpha!}=2(\alpha+1)=\beta = 2010\]
 
Last edited:
ATTENTION :
lfdahl is using the prohibited beta :p.
 
Here goes the solution without the use of weird functions. :p

(Suggested solution)

Let
$$N(k)=\int_0^1 x^k(1-x)^k\,dx \,\,\,(*)$$
and
$$D(k)=\int_0^1x^k(1-x^{2k+2})^k\,dx\,\,\,(**)$$
Use the substitution $x^{k+1}=t$ to obtain:
$$D(k)=\frac{1}{k+1}\int_0^1 (1-t^2)^k\,dt$$
$$\Rightarrow \frac{1}{2(k+1)}\int_{-1}^1 (1-t^2)^k\,dt=\frac{2^{2k-1}}{k+1}\int_{-1}^1 \left(\frac{1-x}{2}\right)^k\left(\frac{1+x}{2}\right)^k\,dx$$
Next, use the substitution,
$$\frac{1+x}{2}=u \Rightarrow dx=2du$$
to obtain:
$$D(k)=\frac{2^{2k}}{k+1}\int_0^1 u^k(1-u)^k\,du=\frac{2^{2k}}{k+1} \int_0^1 x^k(1-x)^k\,dx$$
$$D(k)=\frac{2^{2k}}{k+1}N(k)$$
Hence,
$$2^{2k+1}\frac{N(k)}{D(k)}=2(k+1)$$
Since $k=1004$, hence,
$$2^{2009}\frac{N(1004)}{D(1004)}=2(1004+1)=\boxed{2010}$$
 
  • #10
Nice solution!

(I miss the thanks button. ;))
 
  • #11
Pranav said:
Here goes the solution without the use of weird functions. :p

(Suggested solution)

Let
$$N(k)=\int_0^1 x^k(1-x)^k\,dx \,\,\,(*)$$
and
$$D(k)=\int_0^1x^k(1-x^{2k+2})^k\,dx\,\,\,(**)$$
Use the substitution $x^{k+1}=t$ to obtain:
$$D(k)=\frac{1}{k+1}\int_0^1 (1-t^2)^k\,dt$$
$$\Rightarrow \frac{1}{2(k+1)}\int_{-1}^1 (1-t^2)^k\,dt=\frac{2^{2k-1}}{k+1}\int_{-1}^1 \left(\frac{1-x}{2}\right)^k\left(\frac{1+x}{2}\right)^k\,dx$$
Next, use the substitution,
$$\frac{1+x}{2}=u \Rightarrow dx=2du$$
to obtain:
$$D(k)=\frac{2^{2k}}{k+1}\int_0^1 u^k(1-u)^k\,du=\frac{2^{2k}}{k+1} \int_0^1 x^k(1-x)^k\,dx$$
$$D(k)=\frac{2^{2k}}{k+1}N(k)$$
Hence,
$$2^{2k+1}\frac{N(k)}{D(k)}=2(k+1)$$
Since $k=1004$, hence,
$$2^{2009}\frac{N(1004)}{D(1004)}=2(1004+1)=\boxed{2010}$$

Nice solution indeed! I also miss the thanks-button
 

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