Definition of hypersurface orthogonal

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter fairy._.queen
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Definition Orthogonal
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition and implications of "hypersurface orthogonal" in the context of General Relativity and Differential Geometry. Participants explore the relationship between hypersurface orthogonality, geodesic flows, and irrotationality, while seeking clarity on the application of the term to various types of vector fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the definition of "hypersurface orthogonal" and its connection to geodesic and irrotational flows.
  • Another participant clarifies that a hypersurface orthogonal vector field does not necessarily have geodesic integral curves, providing an example of Rindler observers.
  • A participant proposes a definition involving a vector being orthogonal to hypersurfaces of constant parameters, questioning its applicability to non-timelike congruences.
  • It is noted that the term can apply to any vector field, with a distinction made that it pertains to vector fields rather than individual vectors.
  • A later reply presents a more technical definition involving scalar fields and conditions for irrotationality, referencing Frobenius' theorem.
  • One participant inquires about existence theorems related to hypersurface orthogonal vector fields and the topological conditions necessary for their existence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definition of hypersurface orthogonality or its implications, with multiple viewpoints and questions remaining unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of certain definitions and conditions on the topology of the manifold, as well as the nuances in applying the term to different types of vector fields.

fairy._.queen
Messages
47
Reaction score
0
Definition of "hypersurface orthogonal"

Hi all!
I'm not sure if the thread belongs more to General Relativity or Differential Geometry, but I guess the border is labile.

I've come across the term "hypersurface orthogonal" many times, but I still haven't found a clear definition. Apparently, if a flow is geodesic and irrotational, it is also hypersurface orthogonal, whatever this means.

Could you please give me a definition and explain how the hypersurface orthogonality is linked to the geodesy and irrotationality of a flow?

Thanks in advance!
 
Space news on Phys.org
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=4483918&postcount=8

Note that a hypersurface orthogonal vector field need not have integral curves that are geodesics; it simply needs to be irrotational. An example of a hypersurface orthogonal vector field that doesn't have geodesic integral curves is the 4-velocity field of the family of Rindler observers in flat space-time.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: cianfa72 and fairy._.queen
Thank you for your reply!
If I got it correct, I would say the definition is: "A (timelike?) vector \frac{\partial}{\partial\lambda} is said to be hypersurface orthogonal if there exist a foliating of space-time into hypersurfaces of constant \lambda such that \frac{\partial}{\partial\lambda} is everywhere orthogonal to such hypersurfaces". Am I right?

Is it possible to apply the term to non-timelike congruences?
For example, I found this sentence in a paper: "It is proved that the vectors of this eigenframe are hypersurface orthogonal and consequently that a coordinate system exist in which the metric [...] is diagonal"
For the metric to be diagonal, this must mean that you can foliate space-time so that, for instance, the y vector is orthogonal to the surfaces of constant y.
 
Yes it can be applied to any vector field although and what you said is fine except that the term only applies to vector fields, not to vectors, At any given event in space-time there always exists a hypersurface that is orthogonal to a given vector so there isn't really anything interesting there.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: cianfa72 and fairy._.queen
Thanks!
 
No problem! By the way, I should probably mention that the simplest definition of hypersurface orthogonality of any vector field ##\xi^a## is simply that ##\xi^a = \alpha \nabla^a \beta## for smooth scalar fields ##\alpha,\beta##. It turns out that locally this is equivalent to ##\xi_{[a}\nabla_{b}\xi_{c]} = 0## (this is a result of Frobenius' theorem for integral subbundles) and this in turn is equivalent to ##\xi^a## being irrotational i.e. ##\epsilon^{abcd}\xi_b \nabla_c \xi_d = 0## which can be shown through a simple calculation.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: cianfa72 and fairy._.queen
It makes sense. Thanks again!
 
Anytime :) cheers!
 
WannabeNewton said:
Anytime :) cheers!

WBN: do you know if there are any existence theorem on hypersurface orthogonal vector fields?

I.e. if you have a foliation by codimension one hypersurfaces - what must be satisfied for there to exists an everywhere hypersurface-orthogonal vector field?

I recognize that this would be equivalent the existence of foliations by codimension one surfaces, and one-dimensional curves. The existence of the first does depend on the topology of the manifold. Ex: http://www.map.mpim-bonn.mpg.de/Foliations states a theorem that says that the existence of codimension one foliations depend on the relevant topological space having Euler characteristic 0!

Thus, I wonder what the topological conditions on the first and the latter coexisting. And what if they are orthogonal to each other?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
7K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
10K
  • Poll Poll
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
22K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
19K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K