Demystifying Quantum Numbers: Understanding the Role of n, l, and ml

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the understanding of quantum numbers, specifically the principal quantum number (n), azimuthal quantum number (l), and magnetic quantum number (ml). Participants explore their relationships to atomic structure, periodicity, and electron configurations, with a focus on the implications for specific elements like zirconium (Zr).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the principal quantum number (n) and its relation to the periodic table, questioning if n indicates all possible orbitals for an atom or just for one electron.
  • Another participant confirms that the principal quantum number corresponds to the periods of the periodic table, clarifying that while valence electrons have the same n value, other electrons in lower shells also exist.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of an n value of 4, with one participant stating that any atom from the fourth period can have electrons with n=4.
  • Participants discuss the maximum value of ml for n=4, with one participant humorously referencing Pauli's exclusion principle to explain why ml cannot exceed 3.
  • One participant corrects themselves regarding zirconium's period, acknowledging that it is in the fifth period and questioning the implications for its n and ml values.
  • Another participant explains that while an n value of 5 allows for a maximum ml value of 4, not all subshells are necessarily filled in an element's ground state, specifically noting that Zr reaches its 5d subshell but not the 5g subshell.
  • One participant speculates that the first element to have an electron in the 5g subshell would be element 121.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some agreement on the relationship between quantum numbers and the periodic table, but there remains uncertainty and debate regarding the specifics of electron configurations and the implications for elements like zirconium.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the filling of subshells and the conditions under which certain quantum numbers apply, particularly regarding the transition from theoretical maximum values to actual electron configurations in elements.

Modernization
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I am still totally confused about the principle quantum number even though i got passed the unit with a A+ on the exam. does the principal quantum number, n, have anything to do with the period? Does the "n" value, which leads to the "l" and "ml" actually indicate all the possible orbitals for a particular atom or just for one electron. When you give an "n" value of 4, what does that mean? does it mean any element on period 4?
Also, why couldn't element Zr (atomic number=40) have at least one electron with an "ml" value of +4?
thanks
 
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Modernization said:
does the principal quantum number, n, have anything to do with the period?

Yes! 1st period - n=1, 2nd period - n=2. And so on. BUT - that relates only to the valence shell. All valence electrons in all atoms form 3rd period have n=3, but these atoms have also electrons with n=1 and n=2, they are just not taking part in reactions. (In the case of of periods with higher numbers it can get a little bit more cimplicated, but for now that should be enough).

Does the "n" value, which leads to the "l" and "ml" actually indicate all the possible orbitals for a particular atom or just for one electron.

There are many electrons having the same n value, so it probably means "all", but I am not sure what the question is.

When you give an "n" value of 4, what does that mean? does it mean any element on period 4?

No, any atom of any element from period 4th up can have electrons with n=4.

Also, why couldn't element Zr (atomic number=40) have at least one electron with an "ml" value of +4?

Because for n=4 maximum value of ml is 3. To misquote Pauli - treat it as a police ban. You don't have to understand, but you have to obey :wink: There is a logic behind, but it is hard to understand without knowing more about where and how quantum numbers appear in wuantum mechanics.
 
Borek said:
Because for n=4 maximum value of ml is 3. To misquote Pauli - treat it as a police ban. You don't have to understand, but you have to obey :wink: There is a logic behind, but it is hard to understand without knowing more about where and how quantum numbers appear in wuantum mechanics.

but the element Zr is on the fifth period, so wouldn't it have an "n" value of 5, which makes ml +4 possible?
 
Sorry, my mistake. You are right, 5th period it is. But now I am not sure what you are asking about.

--
 
Modernization said:
but the element Zr is on the fifth period, so wouldn't it have an "n" value of 5, which makes ml +4 possible?

An n value of 5 means that an element can have a maximum mℓ value of 4, but an element with electrons in its n = 5 shell doesn't automatically mean it has electrons in all its subshells, or in this case, electrons in its 5g subshell (n = 5, ℓ = 4). Zr (element 30) just has enough electrons to reach its 5d subshell (n = 5, mℓ = 3). On the other hand, no element on the periodic table has enough electrons to reach the 5g subshell (n = 5, ℓ = 4) in its ground state.
By my figuring, the first element to have an electron in its 5g subshell would be element 121.
 

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