Derivation of Geodesics Eq from EM Tensor of Point Particle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the geodesic equation from the energy-momentum tensor of a point particle in general relativity. Participants explore the mathematical steps involved, particularly focusing on the treatment of the Dirac delta function and integration by parts in the context of generalized functions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 presents the energy-momentum tensor for a free particle and outlines the derivation of the geodesic equation, raising a question about the treatment of a specific term after integration by parts.
  • Post 2 suggests that the delta function becomes zero when evaluating limits of the integral, implying a need for understanding generalized functions.
  • Post 3 reiterates the need for rigorous study of generalized functions, asking for specific formulas from a referenced book.
  • Post 4 provides a specific formula from the Gel'Fand and Shilov book related to derivatives of generalized functions.
  • Post 5 questions the necessity of mentioning integration by parts if the formula explains the transition between steps.
  • Post 6 speculates that the mention of integration by parts is to accommodate readers unfamiliar with derivatives of generalized functions.
  • Post 7 repeats the assertion about the delta function being zero everywhere, concluding that the product of a derivative and the delta function is zero.
  • Post 8 cautions against treating the delta function as a regular function, emphasizing its unique properties and the implications of having it outside an integral.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of the delta function and the implications of integration by parts. There is no consensus on the interpretation of these mathematical steps or the conclusions drawn from them.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for careful handling of generalized functions and the potential pitfalls in assuming properties of the delta function outside of integrals.

sergiokapone
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The energy-momentum tensor of a free particle with mass ##m## moving along its worldline ##x^\mu (\tau )## is
\begin{equation}
T^{\mu\nu}(y^\sigma)=m\int d \tau \frac{\delta^{(4) }(y^\sigma-x^\sigma(\tau ))}{\sqrt{-g}}\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\tau}.\tag{2}
\end{equation}
The covariant derivative of tensor gives
\begin{equation}
\nabla_{\mu} T^{\mu\nu} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{-g}} \frac{\partial \left( \sqrt{-g} T^{\mu\nu}\right) }{\partial y^{\mu}} + \Gamma^{\nu}_{\mu\lambda}T^{\mu\lambda}
\end{equation}

And a derivation of geodesics equation from energy-momentum tensor of point particle in GR ##\nabla_{\mu} T^{\mu\nu} = 0## looks like:

\begin{align}

0 &~~~~~~=~ \frac{1}{\sqrt{-g(y)}}\partial^{(y)}_{\mu} \left(\sqrt{-g(y)}T^{\mu\nu}(y)\right)
+\Gamma^{\nu}_{\mu\lambda}(y) T^{\mu\lambda}(y) \cr
&~~~~~~=~\frac{m}{\sqrt{-g(y)}} \int \!\mathrm{d}\tau ~\dot{x}^{\nu}\dot{x}^{\mu}\partial^{(y)}_{\mu}\delta^4(y\!-\!x(\tau )) ~+~\Gamma^{\nu}_{\mu\lambda}(y) T^{\mu\lambda}(y) \cr
&~~~~~~=~\underbrace{-\frac{m}{\sqrt{-g(y)}} \int \!\mathrm{d}\tau ~\dot{x}^{\nu} \frac{d}{d\tau}\delta^4(y\!-\!x(\tau ))}_\text{this term we integrating by parts}
~+~\Gamma^{\nu}_{\mu\lambda}(y) T^{\mu\lambda}(y) \cr
&\stackrel{\text{int. by parts}}{=}~\frac{m}{\sqrt{-g(y)}}\underbrace{ \dot{x}^{\nu}\delta^{(4)}(y−x(τ))}_\text{shoul be =0! Why?} + \cr
&~~~~~\frac{m}{\sqrt{-g(y)}} \int \!\mathrm{d}\tau\underbrace{\left[\ddot{x}^{\nu}+ \Gamma^{\nu}_{\mu\lambda}(x(\tau))\dot{x}^{\mu}\dot{x}^{\lambda} \right]}_\text{=0 geodesics equation}\delta^4(y\!-\!x(\tau )) .
\end{align}Can anyone explain where did the term ##uv=\dot{x}^{\nu}\delta^{(4)}(y−x(τ))## go after integration by parts ##\int udv=uv−\int vdu## in the last term (5)?
 
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Well, you can think that when evaluating the limits of the integral ##\delta^{(4)}(y-x(\tau))## will become 0 because it's basically 0 everywhere. For more rigorous ways you should study generalized functions and it's derivatives. You can look at the Gel'Fand and Shilov book "Generalized Functions Volume I".
 
Gaussian97 said:
Well, you can think that when evaluating the limits of the integral ##\delta^{(4)}(y-x(\tau))## will become 0 because it's basically 0 everywhere. For more rigorous ways you should study generalized functions and it's derivatives. You can look at the Gel'Fand and Shilov book "Generalized Functions Volume I".
Can you write appropriate formulae from Gel'Fand and Shilov book's here?
 
Well, is not a formula, is an entire book dedicated to generalized functions, but maybe you need the equation of Example 7 of Chapter 2:

$$\int \delta'(x-h)\varphi(x)\text{d}x=-\varphi'(h)$$
 
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Yes, this formula explain the transition from (4) to (6), but why then mentioned integration by parts?
 
Maybe because the author knows that the lector may not be familiarized with derivatives of generalized functions and then uses the argument I said before of "integrating by parts and supposing that ##\delta## outside an integral is 0."
 
Gaussian97 said:
Well, you can think that when evaluating the limits of the integral δ(4)(y−x(τ))δ(4)(y−x(τ))\delta^{(4)}(y-x(\tau)) will become 0 because it's basically 0 everywhere.

Gaussian97 said:
"integrating by parts and supposing that δδ\delta outside an integral is 0."

Then I conclude,
##\dot{x}\delta (x) = 0## everywrehe, even in ##x=0##. Does it right?
 
Well, you have to be very careful because ##\delta## is not a usual function, but most of the times you can think of it as a function that is 0 everywhere and is not defined at ##x=0##. Usually having a ##\delta## outside an integral is not a good idea.
 
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