Derivation of second order system transfer function

Click For Summary
The discussion focuses on deriving the transfer function for a second-order dynamic system, specifically a mass-spring-damper system. The user, Ryan, compares his derivation with that of his lecturer and identifies a discrepancy related to the input force and its relationship to the system's parameters. He seeks clarification on the physical reasoning behind the equation f(t)/m = Kω_n²x(t) and the dimensionality of transfer functions. Participants emphasize that transfer functions are not dimensionless and can have units as long as they represent the output-input relationship. The conversation concludes with Ryan expressing gratitude for the insights provided.
ryan88
Messages
41
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I am trying to derive the general transfer function for a second order dynamic system, shown below:

\frac{Y(s)}{X(s)}=\frac{K\omega_n^2}{s^2+2\zeta\omega_ns+\omega_n^2}

In order to do this I am considering a mass-spring-damper system, with an input force of f(t) that satisfies the following second-order differential equation:

m\frac{d^2y}{\dt^2}+c\frac{dy}{dt}+ky=f(t)

Using the following two relationships:

c=2\zeta\omega_nm

\frac{k}{m}=\omega_n^2

I get this:

\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}+2\zeta\omega_n\frac{dy}{dt}+\omega_n^2y=\frac{f(t)}{m}

\mathcal{L}\left\{\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}\right\}+2\zeta\omega_n\mathcal{L}\left\{\frac{dy}{dt}\right\}+\omega_n\mathcal{L}\left\{y\right\}=\frac{1}{m}\mathcal{L}\left\{f(t)\right\}

Y(s)\left[s^2+2\zeta\omega_ns+\omega_n^2\right]=\frac{F(s)}{m}

\frac{Y(s)}{F(s)}=\frac{1}{m(s^2+2\zeta\omega_ns+\omega_n^2)}

Wheras my lecturer has the following in his notes:

\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}+2\zeta\omega_n\frac{dy}{dt}+\omega_n^2y=K\omega_n^2x(t)

\mathcal{L}\left\{\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}\right\}+2\zeta\omega_n\mathcal{L}\left\{\frac{dy}{dt}\right\}+\omega_n\mathcal{L}\left\{y\right\}=K\omega_n^2\mathcal{L}\{x(t)\}

Y(s)\left[s^2+2\zeta\omega_ns+\omega_n^2\right]=K\omega_n^2X(s)

\frac{Y(s)}{X(s)}=\frac{K\omega_n^2}{s^2+2\zeta\omega_ns+\omega_n^2}

This obvisously gives the correct transfer function. So, from the two approaches, I have come to the conclusion that:

\frac{f(t)}{m}=K\omega_n^2x(t)

But I do not understand the physical reasoning behind this. Can anyone offer any help with this?

Thanks,

Ryan
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
That is standard notation. The "trick" is to multiply the right hand side by \frac{k}{k}. As for physical intuition. Perform a unit analysis. You should be able to draw a clear conclusion from that.
 
Ah yes, I completely missed that. Although substituting \frac{k}{m}=\omega_n^2 leaves the gain of the system as \frac{1}{k} which is then not dimensionless. I thought this transfer function was supposed to be dimensionless?
 
No transfer functions are hardly dimensionless. Transfer functions are the ratio of system \frac{output}{input}. Thus you can see that the transfer function can hold any units as long as it contains the output-input relationship you are looking for.
 
Ok, thanks for your help viscousflow. It is very much appreciated.

Ryan
 
What mathematics software should engineering students use? Is it correct that much of the engineering industry relies on MATLAB, making it the tool many graduates will encounter in professional settings? How does SageMath compare? It is a free package that supports both numerical and symbolic computation and can be installed on various platforms. Could it become more widely used because it is freely available? I am an academic who has taught engineering mathematics, and taught the...

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
557