Derivation of the Teukolsky Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Teukolsky equation, a significant topic in the study of wave propagation near Kerr black holes. Participants explore the steps involved in the derivation, the relevance of perturbation theory, and the mathematical background necessary for understanding the equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire for a simplified guide to the derivation of the Teukolsky equation, indicating a need for a step-by-step approach.
  • Another participant emphasizes the complexity of the Teukolsky equation and suggests starting with general discussions on metric perturbations to build a foundational understanding.
  • A suggestion is made to gradually introduce concepts from perturbation theory, starting with polynomial roots and their relevance to general relativity, before progressing to the Teukolsky equation.
  • A participant mentions their past experiences with the Regge-Wheeler equation and its similarities to quantum mechanics scattering problems, noting the complications introduced by gauge issues.
  • One participant questions the intent behind wanting to write down the Teukolsky equation without understanding its derivation, suggesting that it can be found in various texts instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to derive the Teukolsky equation. There are differing views on whether a simplified guide is appropriate or if a deeper understanding of the underlying concepts is necessary.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of foundational knowledge in perturbation theory and metric perturbations, suggesting that the derivation of the Teukolsky equation is contingent on understanding these concepts. There is also mention of unresolved mathematical steps and the complexity of gauge issues in related equations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in general relativity, black hole physics, and perturbation theory, particularly students or researchers looking to understand the derivation of the Teukolsky equation and its applications.

geoffc
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Several years ago as an exercise, I was able to work through the derivation of thethe Teukolsky equation but have since lost my notes. Has anyone else gone through the derivation, and if so, could you give me a sort of complete idiot's guide to going through the steps? It's been quite some time since I worked through the details. At some point I'd like to do the separation of variables and look at some of the papers on perturbation theory.

Many thanks in advance.
 
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Good grief! That would take an awful lot of LaTeX, I think! As you recall, the fact that the Teukolsky equation exists at all is something of a miracle--- like a delicate orchid, it requires special care to present. Particularly if you want an "idiots guide", how about backing way up and discussing metric perturbations generally, to try to carry along some of the more ambitious PF seekers.

For those who have no idea what we are talking about, we are discussing a core topic in the theory of wave propagation near a Kerr object.
 
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Suggestion: Work up to it slowly!

Er... I wasn't trying to discourage you, in fact I was encouraging you to try your hand at exposition with some introduction to perturbations generally (in the general math forum, I guess). For example many books on perturbation theory, e.g. Simmonds and Mann, A First Look at Perturbation Theory, Dover reprint of a book originally published in 1986, begin by analyzing the roots of polynomials, and this is directly relevant to a common problem in gtr, in which we have something like the Kottler lambdavacuum (aka Schwarzschild-de Sitter lambdavacuum) and have observed that roots of a fourth order polynomial give the location of two horizons. But the exact expression for these roots are awkward, and it makes good sense to apply perturbation theory to obtain perfectly adequate but much simpler approximations! Then you can discuss application of perturbation theory of ODEs to analyzing some of the classical solar system tests. Continuing, eventually you get to discussing metric perturbations, e.g. linearized gravitational waves propagating on Minkowski or FRW or Schwarzschild backgrounds. The latter brings us to the Regge-Wheeler equation and tensor harmonics. After discussing that we stand at the threshold of generalizing to the Kerr vacuum and deriving the Teukolsky equation.
 
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Thank you very much for the reference. It's one that I haven't had a chance to take a look at, but certainly will when I get a chance. I had been meaning to sit down and work through a few examples in celestial mechanics which seem to be of increasing importance since people are now treating the three body problem in gr which looks like a complete mess.

Many years back I had worked through a few examples of the Regge-Wheeler equation which, from what I remember, was quite reminiscent of scattering problems from quantum mechanics. What seemed to be quite different was the issue of gauge, which was enough of an issue to confuse even a Chandra.

But assuming I meticulously work through all the examples you suggest (a great idea, by the way), all I really wanted to do was write down the Teukolsky equation pretty much the same way a person would tediously write down the Laplacian in spherical coordinates. You have a wave operator...
 
geoffc said:
all I really wanted to do was write down the Teukolsky equation pretty much the same way a person would tediously write down the Laplacian in spherical coordinates

Now I am confused: if you just want to write down the Teukolsky equation without understanding some way to obtain it (or motivate it, or extend it), you can simply look it up in various books.
 

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