Derivative of inverse tangent function

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around finding the derivative of the function \( f(y) = \tan^{-1}(8y^3 + 1) \). Participants explore the application of the chain rule and the derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions, with a focus on clarifying the relationships between variables and derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Post #2 presents a derivation involving the relationship \( y = \tan^{-1}(x) \) and the application of the chain rule to find the derivative of \( f(y) \).
  • Post #3 questions the clarity of the formulas presented, particularly the definitions of \( f \) and \( y \) in the context of the derivative, and suggests that the notation may lead to confusion.
  • Post #5 and Post #6 present conflicting expressions for the derivative, with Post #6 asserting that the left-hand side is incorrect while the right-hand side is correct.
  • Post #8 expresses uncertainty about how to arrive at the correct expression presented in Post #5.
  • Post #9 and Post #10 discuss the notation \( y' \) and clarify that it represents \( \frac{dy}{dx} \), indicating that \( y \) is treated as a function of \( x \).
  • Post #11 points out that in Post #1, \( y \) appears to be treated as an independent variable, which may add to the confusion in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the derivative expressions and the definitions of variables. There is no consensus on the resolution of these points, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity and correctness of the derivative derivations.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of variable definitions and the application of the chain rule, which may affect participants' understanding of the derivative process. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the concepts involved.

karush
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Find the derivative of the function $f(y)$
$$f(y)=\tan^{-1}\left({8{y}^{3}+1}\right)$$
 
Last edited:
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$$y=\tan^{-1}(x)$$

$$\tan(y)=x$$

$$y'\sec^2(y)=1$$

$$y'=\dfrac{1}{\sec^2(y)}$$

$$y'=\dfrac{1}{1+\tan^2(y)}$$

$$y'=\dfrac{1}{1+x^2}$$

For your problem (chain rule):

$$\dfrac{df(g(y))}{dy}=\dfrac{g'(y)}{1+(g(y))^2}$$
 
Last edited:
Some explanation to these formulas would be helpful to someone who is "clueless", for example, how you derive $y'\sec^2(y)=1$ from $\tan(y)=x$. Also, what exactly are $f$ and $y$ in the last equation?
\[
\dfrac{df(y)}{dy}=\dfrac{f'(y)}{1+(f(y))^2}
\]
Do you mean the following?
\[
\dfrac{d\tan^{-1}(f(y))}{dy}=\dfrac{f'(y)}{1+(f(y))^2}
\]
But then this redefines $f$ because in post #1 $f(y)=\tan^{-1}(8y^3+1)$ and here $f(y)=8y^3+1$.

karush, you can refer to the list of derivatives of trigonometric functions in Wikipedia. This article explains how to find $(\tan^{-1}(x))'$. In the future, it would help if you explain what exactly you don't understand. In this case, it is not clear whether you know the chain rule or you need the derivative of $\tan^{-1}(x)$ and, if you need the latter, whether you can look it up or need to derive it as a derivative of inverse function.
 
Yes; I've edited my post to reflect your correction. Thanks for the catch!
 
$$ \frac{8y'{y}^{3}+{y}^{'}}{(8y^2 +1)^2+1} =
\dfrac{24y^2}{\left(8y^3+1\right)^2+1}
$$
 
Last edited:
karush said:
$$ \frac{8y'{y}^{3}+{y}^{'}}{(8y^2 +1)^2+1} =
\dfrac{24y^2}{\left(8y^3+1\right)^2+1}
$$
The right-hand side is a correct answer; the left-hand side is not.
 
thus ??
$$ \dfrac{\class{steps-node}{\cssId{steps-node-4}{8\cdot\class{steps-node}{\cssId{steps-node-6}{\tfrac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}y}\left[y^3\right]}}+\class{steps-node}{\cssId{steps-node-5}{\tfrac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}y}\left[1\right]}}}}}{\left(8y^3+1\right)^2+1}
=
\dfrac{24y^2}{\left(8y^3+1\right)^2+1}
$$
 
Yes, I don't know how else you could get the right-hand side in post #5.
 
I thoght $y'$ Was the same as $\d{}{y}$
 
  • #10
karush said:
I thoght $y'$ Was the same as $\d{}{y}$
No. y is still a function of x. Thus y' = dy/dx

-Dan
 
  • #11
In post #1 $y$ looks like an independent variable.
 

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