Derivative of product & quotient of functions - method of increments

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the method of increments for finding the derivatives of the product and quotient of functions in calculus. Participants explore the implications of constants in functions and the formulation of derivative expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the treatment of the term du in the derivative formula, suggesting that if u contains a constant, du should approach that constant rather than zero.
  • Another participant clarifies that du is defined as u - u0, indicating that if u is constant, then du is indeed zero.
  • A different approach to the derivative is presented, where the change in y is expressed in terms of changes in u and v, leading to a simplified expression for dy/dx that omits higher-order infinitesimals.
  • One participant expresses gratitude for the clarification regarding the subtraction of u0, indicating a realization of a previously overlooked detail.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants engage in a constructive dialogue with some disagreement regarding the treatment of constants in the context of derivatives. However, there is no consensus on the implications of these constants, as the discussion includes multiple perspectives on the formulation of derivatives.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the nuances of infinitesimal changes and their implications for derivative calculations, but the limitations of their assumptions and definitions remain unresolved.

physicsnnewbie
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In my calculus book, the method of increments is used to find the derived function of the product and quotient of two functions. For example for the derivative of the product of functions u and v where u0 and v0 are the values of u and v at x = x0:

y = uv
y' = u0(dv/dx) + v0(du/dx) + du(dv/dx)

where du in the last term is said to approach 0 as x approaches 0. However if the function u contains a constant, wouldn't it approach the constant? This is probably a dumb question, but i must be missing something.
 
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hi physicsnnewbie! :smile:

(try using the X2 icon just above the Reply box :wink:)
physicsnnewbie said:
… where du in the last term is said to approach 0 as x approaches 0. However if the function u contains a constant, wouldn't it approach the constant? This is probably a dumb question, but i must be missing something.

no, du = u - u0, so if u is constant then du is zero :wink:
 
>y = uv
>y' = u0(dv/dx) + v0(du/dx) + du(dv/dx)

That formula is ugly. I'd prefer this:

Suppose y changes by dy, u by du, and v by dv.
Then y+dy = (u+du)(v+dv)=uv+udv+vdu+du dv

Subtract y = uv to obtain
dy=udv+vdu+dudv

Now let the change (dy, du, and dv) be infinitely small. Since dudv contains TWO infintesimal quantities, it is infinitely smaller than the rest of the terms and can be dropped:

dy=udv+vdu

Since y, u, and v are presumed to change with x, divide by the final infinitesimal dx to obtain a formula without any infinitesimal terms:

dy/dx=udv/dx + vdu/dx or y'=uv'+vu'
 
Thanks tim, I knew it was something simple. I was just forgetting that u0 has been subtracted. Thanks for the explanation goongyae.
 

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