Derivative with several terms in denominator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evaluation of a partial derivative involving multiple terms in the denominator, specifically the expression \(\frac{\partial x^{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu} + \xi^{\mu}}\). Participants explore the meaning and implications of this expression within the context of vector components and coordinate transformations, with references to concepts in general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to evaluate the derivative \(\frac{\partial x^{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu} + \xi^{\mu}}\) given that \(\frac{\partial x^{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}} = \delta^{\nu}_{\mu}\).
  • Several participants question the notation used for the partial derivatives, suggesting that the original expression may be a misuse of the partial derivative symbol.
  • There is a suggestion that parentheses are necessary in the original expression, proposing it should be written as \(\frac{\partial x^{\nu}}{\partial (x^{\mu} + \xi^{\mu})}\) and that \(x^{\nu}\) needs to be defined as a function of \(x^{\mu} + \xi^{\mu}\).
  • One participant indicates that the context of the question could clarify the function of \(x^{\nu}\) in relation to \(x^{\mu} + \xi^{\mu}\).
  • A later reply mentions the relationship between vector components in new coordinates and the original coordinates, introducing the concept of a small parameter \(\epsilon\) to describe the closeness of points \(y\) and \(x\).
  • Another participant recalls finding a solution for this type of derivative in general relativity literature, mentioning the involvement of higher-order terms and a minus sign, but cannot recall the details.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and meaning of the original expression. There is no consensus on how to properly interpret or evaluate the derivative, and multiple competing interpretations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the original expression lacks clarity due to missing parentheses and the need for further specification of the function involved. The discussion also highlights the potential for confusion arising from the notation used in the context of derivatives.

davidge
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Hi. I want to solve [itex]\frac{\partial x^{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu} + \xi ^{\mu}}[/itex], knowing that [itex]\frac{\partial x^{\nu}}{\partial x^{\mu}} = \delta ^{\nu}_{\mu}[/itex]. How can I do this?
 
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What do ##\partial x^\nu## and ##\partial x^\mu## denote?
 
andrewkirk said:
What do ##\partial x^\nu## and ##\partial x^\mu## denote?
[itex]\partial[/itex] is the symbol for partial derivative and [itex]x^{\rho}[/itex] is the coordinate of a point [itex]x[/itex].
 
davidge said:
[itex]\partial[/itex] is the symbol for partial derivative and [itex]x^{\rho}[/itex] is the coordinate of a point [itex]x[/itex].
In that case the expression in the OP has no meaning. It is simply a misuse of the partial derivative symbol.
 
andrewkirk said:
In that case the expression in the OP has no meaning. It is simply a misuse of the partial derivative symbol.
No. It is supposed to be a derivative. I must evaluate the derivative of [itex]x^{\nu}[/itex] with respect to [itex]x^{\mu}+ \xi^{\mu}[/itex].
 
davidge said:
No. It is supposed to be a derivative. I must evaluate the derivative of [itex]x^{\nu}[/itex] with respect to [itex]x^{\mu}+ \xi^{\mu}[/itex].
In that case, there are necessary parentheses missing in the OP. It needs to be written
$$\frac{\partial x^\nu}{\partial (x^\mu+\xi^\mu)}$$
and ##x^\nu## needs to be specified as a function of ##x^\mu+\xi^\mu##. What is that function? Perhaps if you provided more information about the context of your question, the function would become apparent.
 
Stephen Tashi said:
Is it one of the types of derivatives treated in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_derivative_(continuum_mechanics) ?
I didn't notice any two or more terms in the denominator of those derivatives.

andrewkirk said:
there are necessary parentheses missing in the OP
Yes. I'm sorry.

andrewkirk said:
xνxνx^\nu needs to be specified as a function of xμ+ξμxμ+ξμx^\mu+\xi^\mu. What is that function?
I was trying to relate the components of a vector in the new ##x## coordinates with that in the ##y## coordinates. They should change as $$V^{\nu}(x) = \frac{\partial x^{\nu}}{\partial (y^{\mu} = x^{\mu}+ \epsilon \xi^{\mu}(x))}V'^{\mu}(y).$$

There was missing the ##\epsilon## (|##\epsilon##| << 1) in the OP, because points ##y## and ##x## are very close from each other.

I found the solution for this derivative in books of GR. It involves expanding something, where one gets terms in higher orders in ##\epsilon##, there was also a minus sign. But can't remember more than this...
 
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