Deriving the spherical volume element

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on deriving the infinitesimal volume element in spherical coordinates, exploring various methods and addressing challenges encountered in the derivation process. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical explanation related to coordinate transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to derive the spherical volume element from the Cartesian volume element but encounters difficulties with terms that do not cancel, such as ##dr^{3}##.
  • Another participant suggests that the volume element should be derived from the volume spanned by basis vectors in spherical coordinates, using the triple product of these vectors.
  • A different perspective emphasizes that the volume element in Cartesian coordinates is not the same as in polar coordinates, indicating a need for careful transformation.
  • A later reply indicates that using the wedge product helped the original poster arrive at the correct expression for the volume element.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the original method of derivation and the appropriate approach to derive the volume element. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to use.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the equivalence of volume elements in different coordinate systems, and the discussion highlights the importance of understanding the geometric interpretation of the volume element.

quickAndLucky
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I’m trying to derive the infinitesimal volume element in spherical coordinates. Obviously there are several ways to do this. The way I was attempting it was to start with the cartesian volume element, dxdydz, and transform it using

$$dxdydz = \left (\frac{\partial x}{\partial r}dr + \frac{\partial x}{\partial \theta }d\theta + \frac{\partial x}{\partial \phi }d\phi \right )\left ( \frac{\partial y}{\partial r}dr + \frac{\partial y}{\partial \theta }d\theta + \frac{\partial y }{\partial \phi}d\phi \right )\left ( \frac{\partial z}{\partial r}dr + \frac{\partial z}{\partial \theta }d\theta + \frac{\partial z}{\partial \phi}d\phi \right )$$

Unfortunately, I can’t see how I will arrive at the correct expression, ##r^{2}sin\theta drd\theta d\phi ##.

For one reason, when completely expanded, I get terms with repeated differentials like ##dr^{3} ## that don’t cancel.

Why is my method of derivation invalid?
 
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You are not looking at the volumes actually spanned by the basis vectors corresponding to the spherical coordinates. The volume element spanned by three vectors ##\vec a_i## is the triple product ##\vec a_1 \cdot (\vec a_2 \times \vec a_3)##. Hence, if you look at the volume of a small parallelepiped spanned by the coordinate lines with coordinate differences ##dy^i##, then this is given by
$$
dV = \frac{\partial \vec x}{\partial y^1} \cdot \left(\frac{\partial \vec x}{\partial y^2} \times \frac{\partial \vec x}{\partial y^3}\right) dy^1 dy^2 dy^3.
$$

Alternatively, the volume element can be seen as the wedge product between the differentials. You must then remember that the wedge product is completely anti-symmetric and therefore anything like ##dr\wedge dr = 0##.
 
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Thanks for the help! Using a wedge between the terms in my original expression got me to the answer!
 
Last edited:

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