Deriving the Value of the Sum in {_\lim {i} \rightarrow 0}

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the value of a specific sum related to the lengths of a curve defined by the function f(x) = x^n. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the sum as i approaches 0 and consider the use of the binomial theorem in their analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the sum and seeks to derive its value, suggesting the use of the binomial theorem.
  • Another participant rewrites the original equation and explores the convergence of the term i^{n-1}((k+1)^{n} - k^{n}) as i approaches 0, proposing that it converges to nx^{n-1} for certain values of k.
  • A later reply questions whether \frac{x}{i} - 1 should be an integer, prompting a discussion about the conditions under which x can be complex or real.
  • One participant argues that x must be complex for the expression to yield an integer, while another suggests that this is not necessarily the case.
  • There is an acknowledgment of the potential complexity of the sum and a participant expresses uncertainty about the elimination of the iterated variable k.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether \frac{x}{i} - 1 can be an integer, with some asserting it can only be true under specific conditions regarding the nature of x. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the convergence of the sum and the implications of the variable k.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of x (real vs. complex) and the implications of these assumptions on the integer status of \frac{x}{i} - 1. There are also unresolved mathematical steps regarding the convergence of the sum.

Werg22
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Given the sum
[tex]{_\lim {i} \rightarrow 0} \sum_{k=0}^{\frac{x}{i} - 1} i\sqrt{1 + i^{2n-2}((k+1)^{n} - k^{n})^{2}}[/tex]
I want to know how to derive to the value of this sum exactly. This is actually the value of the lenghts of a curve from a point to the origin of the form f(x) = x^n... I thought the binominal theorem can be used, but i can't develop on this further more. Anyone is capable of showing to what value this converges?
 
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Werg22 said:
Given the sum
[tex]{_\lim {i} \rightarrow 0} \sum_{k=0}^{\frac{x}{i} - 1} i\sqrt{1 + i^{2n-2}((k+1)^{n} - k^{n})^{2}}[/tex]
I want to know how to derive to the value of this sum exactly. This is actually the value of the lenghts of a curve from a point to the origin of the form f(x) = x^n... I thought the binominal theorem can be used, but i can't develop on this further more. Anyone is capable of showing to what value this converges?
I'll give this a go. The added bonus is if I'm wrong one of the more math-y people in here is bound to catch my mistake :)
What I first did is rewrote your equation like this:
[tex]{_\lim {i} \rightarrow 0} \sum_{k=0}^{\frac{x}{i} - 1} i\sqrt{1 + (i^{n-1}((k+1)^{n} - k^{n}))^{2}}[/tex]
Now look at [tex]i^{n-1}((k+1)^{n} - k^{n})[/tex]. What value does this converge to as i-> 0 and if [tex]k = \frac{x}{i}-1[/tex]? Do a binomial expansion and you will get an open form of something like [tex]i^{n-1}(((\frac{x}{i})^{n} - ((\frac{x}{i})^{n} - n(\frac{x}{i})^{n-1} - o(n-2))))[/tex] where o(n-2) is something that isn't particularly relevant to the answer that is of order n-2. I think you will find that for this particular value of k (and in fact all k) if you work out say [tex]k = \frac{x}{i}-2[/tex] and so on that you will find the limit always converges to the same value: [tex]nx^{n-1}[/tex], so the sum simplifies somewhat to [tex]{_\lim {i} \rightarrow 0} \sum_{k=0}^{\frac{x}{i} - 1} i\sqrt{1 + (nx^{n-1})^{2}}[/tex]

Edit: It certainly doesn't converge. I eliminated the iterated variable k entirely, I don't really know what to make of that sum to be honest. I'll re-edit this tomorrow with maybe something.
 
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Werg22 said:
Given the sum
[tex]{_\lim {i} \rightarrow 0} \sum_{k=0}^{\frac{x}{i} - 1} i\sqrt{1 + i^{2n-2}((k+1)^{n} - k^{n})^{2}}[/tex]
I want to know how to derive to the value of this sum exactly. This is actually the value of the lenghts of a curve from a point to the origin of the form f(x) = x^n... I thought the binominal theorem can be used, but i can't develop on this further more. Anyone is capable of showing to what value this converges?

Shouldn't [tex]\frac{x}{i} - 1[/tex] be an integer?
 
it can be an integer

certainly not (unless it is not mentioned that x is complex).it can be proved .by solving we get x-1\i.further xi + 1\-1. if x is not complex the expression will never be integer . x has to be an complex which is raised to an odd no: (which is quiet easy to understand )it also depends on the coefficient of x(x=ai ) then if a is any real number then then it depends on what a is .i think i am right .if wrong please send me a reply and also tell how u tpye equations in forums
 
We use latex code to type equations in the forums: to see the latex code that generated a particular math expression, double click on it. Oh, and here is a link to the ever handy LaTeX code reference.

shravan said:
certainly not (unless it is not mentioned that x is complex).it can be proved .by solving we get x-1\i.further xi + 1\-1. if x is not complex the expression will never be integer . x has to be an complex which is raised to an odd no: (which is quiet easy to understand )it also depends on the coefficient of x(x=ai ) then if a is any real number then then it depends on what a is .i think i am right .if wrong please send me a reply and also tell how u tpye equations in forums

And as to my question, it was rhetorical.
 
i am sorry. i did not see what u wrote before but ur last line caught my attention. thanks for guidelines to type equations.
 

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