Designing a Dry Sump System: Help and Advice Needed

[ukcjm]

hi to anyone and everyone. i am thinking of using a dry sump system, there is no kit available for my application, so i would have to design my own sump. could anyone help in this area please. any help/advice greatly appriciated. many thanks

 

[brewnog]

Well, firstly what's your application, and what reasons do you have for going with a dry sump?

I believe the biggest problem you'd need to overcome would be sourcing of a pump/pumps to suit your engine. If you did decide to fit a dry sump, it'd depend on the engine type as to whether you could get a scavenge pump to suit the required flow; it'd have to be driven directly from the engine as I'm sure you're aware. Fabricating a suitable sump, remote reservoir, and the necessary piping would be easy enough.

What's the engine, what are you using it for, how much do you have to spend, and what do you hope to gain?



For the benefit of others, dry sump systems generally offer:
- Greater oil capacity (because you're using a remote reservoir), so cooler and cleaner oil
- Decreased parasitic losses, because the crankshaft isn't sloshing around in a bath of oil
- Enables the engine to be installed lower into the vehicle, so lowered CoG
- Eliminates oil starvation problems caused by heavy acceleration, cornering and braking
- Sometimes, improved servicing access to oil pumps

Naturally, the main disadvantage is cost, even with a kit system. Sourcing and developing a suitable pump for a one-off could be a pretty involved exercise.

Pragmatically, if your application really demands a dry sump system, you may be better off looking at an engine change.

 

[ukcjm]

hi brewnog, thanks for reply, the car is triumph spitfire, engine is 2.5 tuned. we wish to use car for track events, hill climbs etc.the benefits I'm looking at from dry sump, are, heating of oil before firing, "0" oil surge problems, ability to remove air from oil, extra capicity, (already have custom wet sump increased) improved piston ring sealing asnd lower engine placement. fitting pump no problem, crank snout same as buick,ford and pontiac, so gilmer pulleys available. willing to spend whatever it costs, up to £2000.have found pump sources, aviaid, being one particular one.the sump seems to be the key to a successful application.have seen pics of sumps, discriptions, but nothing i can work with adequately. can not change engine, too much work, money and time gone into this one. what are your thoughts please?

 

[brewnog]

hi brewnog, thanks for reply, the car is triumph spitfire, engine is 2.5 tuned. we wish to use car for track events, hill climbs etc.the benefits I'm looking at from dry sump, are, heating of oil before firing, "0" oil surge problems, ability to remove air from oil, extra capicity, (already have custom wet sump increased) improved piston ring sealing asnd lower engine placement. fitting pump no problem, crank snout same as buick,ford and pontiac, so gilmer pulleys available. willing to spend whatever it costs, up to £2000.have found pump sources, aviaid, being one particular one.the sump seems to be the key to a successful application.have seen pics of sumps, discriptions, but nothing i can work with adequately. can not change engine, too much work, money and time gone into this one. what are your thoughts please?

Interesting one! I'll do a bit of research into the sumps themselves, will try and get back to you. I trust you've been in touch with the owners' clubs and haven't found anyone who's undertaken a similar project?

I don't suppose you really want to be developing a sump on your engine, sounds like it needs to be right first time!

Incidentally, where in the UK are you?

 

[brewnog]

From what I've seen so far, you should just be able to have a sump machined from an aluminium billet. Obviously you could use your existing sump as a template for the mating face. Other than ensuring that there is sufficient clearance on the crankshaft, and that your pickups are located and sized to ensure good drainage from the sump, I don't see the sump itself providing too many issues. Everything else in the system would be as with a kit. I'd be most concerned with ensuring your scavenge pump(s) are delivering at the correct flow, but you seem to have this one covered.

Technically, noise and vibration are traditionally major issues with sumps, but for this application I wouldn't worry too much providing the vibration isn't ridiculous.

Incidentally, I looked at a dry sump conversion for my (Triumph based!) kit car, but I use it so little on the track that I couldn't justify the cost.

 

[ukcjm]

many thanks brewnog, I'm grateful for any help. yes have been asking/seeking all round planet! have some potentially positive advice in pipeline. not certain yet though. yes it does need to be right first time, a tall order, but maybe possible. i live in bristol,uk. thanks again for your time and help.

 

[brewnog]

And I've just seen you've already beat me to the triumph.org.uk website!

It looks gorgeous anyway, I'm definitely in favour of that subtle scoop on the roof!

 

[ukcjm]

so you have seen the marmite car! thanks for compliments. i am also on british car for', and a few others, usa and british. triumph based kit car eh? any pics please?