Determinant Question: Understanding Row Interchange & Cycles

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Weather Freak
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Determinant
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the properties of determinants in relation to row operations, specifically the effects of interchanging rows versus cyclically shifting rows in a matrix. Participants explore the underlying rules and theorems that explain these behaviors, seeking a deeper understanding of the concepts involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that interchanging rows changes the determinant, while cyclically shifting rows does not, and seeks clarification on the governing theorem.
  • Another participant states that the change in determinant from row interchange follows from the rule that the determinant of a matrix changes sign when two rows are swapped.
  • A different perspective suggests that shifting rows does not alter the vectors forming the matrix, implying that the determinant remains unchanged due to the preservation of vector relationships.
  • One participant introduces the Levi-Civita symbol to explain the determinant's properties, indicating that the sign change from row interchanges is related to the parity of permutations of indices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the reasons behind the behavior of determinants with respect to row operations. There is no consensus on a single explanation, and multiple perspectives are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants' explanations rely on specific definitions and properties of determinants, such as the use of the Levi-Civita symbol and the concept of permutations, which may not be universally understood or accepted in all contexts.

Weather Freak
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hi Folks,

I have a question about determinants that is probably quite simple. I know that if you have a matrix and you interchange rows, the determinant changes. However, if you cyclically change the rows up or down, still in order, the determinant does not change.

What is the theorem or other rule that governs the difference between the two? Is it a fundamental property of matrices that perhaps I've missed along the way? I've searched through a variety of textbooks and websites, and seen that this is indeed true, but no one has provided an explanation as to why.

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It simply follows from that very rule, i.e. det B = - det A, if one obtains B by interchanging two rows or columns from A. And the rule itself follows from the definition of the determinant.
 
Linear Algebra is not by any means my strong suit but if you have a 3x3 matrix and you shift the rows down, you still have the same 3 vectors that form the matrix. Wouldnt that be why the determinant doesn't change
 
The determinant is proportional to \epsilon_{ijk...} A_{1i}A_{2j}A_{3k}..., where epsilon is the n-dimensional Levi-Civita symbol (i.e it is equal to +1 if the indices are an even permutation of ijk... and -1 if the indices are an odd permutation of ijk..) and A_{ij} is an n by n matrix. In the expression for the determinant the rows (or columns) appear as products. Interchanging the order of these changes nothing but interchanging the order changes permutation of the indices of epsilon. Therefore, interchanging two rows you get a minus or a plus sign depending on if the interchange implies an odd or an even permutation of the indices of epsilon.
 

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
7K