Determining ionization energy of Lithium.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around determining the third ionization energy of lithium in its ground state, exploring theoretical approaches and calculations related to ionization energy. Participants engage with the underlying concepts, equations, and assumptions necessary for solving the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a multiple-choice question regarding the third ionization energy of lithium and expresses confusion about the application of the formula for energy levels.
  • Another participant questions the number of electrons remaining after two have been removed, suggesting that the atomic number (Z) should be clarified as it relates to the formula.
  • Some participants note that lithium should have one electron remaining after two are removed and express skepticism about the clarity of the textbook regarding the definition of Z.
  • There is a discussion about the ionization energy of the remaining electron being greater due to the removal of two electrons, with one participant seeking analytical methods to account for this change.
  • One participant recalls the concept of effective charge and considers how to apply it to the formula, although they express uncertainty about their calculations.
  • Another participant suggests that twice ionized lithium behaves like a hydrogen-like atom, implying that the Rydberg formula could simplify the calculation of ionization energy.
  • There is clarification that the ionization energy is defined as positive, with the potential energy of the electron being negative before ionization.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the application of formulas and concepts related to ionization energy, with no consensus reached on the correct approach or final answer. Some participants agree on the behavior of lithium as a hydrogen-like atom, while others remain uncertain about the calculations and definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential ambiguities in the definitions of variables such as Z and the treatment of effective charge, indicating that the discussion may depend on specific interpretations of these concepts.

brbrett
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Homework Statement


What is the third ionization energy of Li in its ground state?
A. 4.91 E-18 J
B. 6.54 E-18 J
C. 7.79 E-18 J
D. 9.20 E-18 J
E. 1.96 E-17 J

Homework Equations


Maybe:
EN=-(2.18E-18)(Z2/N2)

The Attempt at a Solution


Plugging in values doesn't give me any of the answers. At first I thought Z was the number of electrons, but now I think it is the atomic number. Either way, I'm at a loss for this question.
 
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How many electrons does lithium have if two were removed already? Where are the remaining electrons?
brbrett said:
At first I thought Z was the number of electrons, but now I think it is the atomic number.
Quantities used in formulas are explained at the place where you found the formula. There is no need to guess.
 
Lithium should have 1 electron remaining if two were removed. Also, we weren't told in the textbook I'm using what Z is. We were told about every other value though, which I find is funny.

Back on topic though, I did think of this, but I'm not sure how I can get a number out of this. Wouldn't the ionization energy of the lone electron be much greater considering how two have already been removed? How can I account for this analytically?

Thanks!
 
brbrett said:
Lithium should have 1 electron remaining if two were removed.
Right.
brbrett said:
Also, we weren't told in the textbook I'm using what Z is.
It would surprise me if the textbook doesn't mention that.
It is the charge the electron "sees", in this case simply the charge of the nucleus, also called atomic number.
brbrett said:
Wouldn't the ionization energy of the lone electron be much greater considering how two have already been removed?
Sure, the first and second ionization energies are lower.
brbrett said:
How can I account for this analytically?
Reduce the charge of the nucleus by the charge of all "inner" electrons. That is not exact, but it gives a reasonable approximation for most atoms.
 
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Ok, so now I vaguely recall the concept of Effective charge. If I were to plug this into my formula, would I want to replace (Z2/N2) with Δ(Z2/N2)?

To clarify as to what I would plug in:
E=-(2.18E-18)((0/1)-(3/1))=6.54E-18
This is one of the given answers, which is good, however, the answer is E (I wasn't confident in this answer anyways).

For 0/1, I made Z=0 as I would suppose that, as there are no electrons remaining, there is not charge being applied to them. I used N=1 because that is the shell we are dealing with.

Getting closer, but still a wee bit lost. An interesting question, though. Thanks for the help!
 
brbrett said:
Ok, so now I vaguely recall the concept of Effective charge. If I were to plug this into my formula, would I want to replace (Z2/N2) with Δ(Z2/N2)?
I'm not sure what you mean by the second expression.
To clarify as to what I would plug in:
E=-(2.18E-18)((0/1)-(3/1))=6.54E-18
This is one of the given answers, which is good, however, the answer is E (I wasn't confident in this answer anyways).
Don't forget to square Z.

There is no need to take a difference. The formula gives the energy relative to free electrons, which is exactly the final state you want, so you can just plug in Z and N and you get the ionization energy.
 
Wouldn't hurt to state the obvious - twice ionized lithium is a hydrogen-like atom (single electron and a nucleus), so finding the ionization energy is just a direct application of the Rydberg formula. No need for effective charge nor any other complications.
 
Thanks! I'm starting to get it now. One question I have is why would 32/1 be negative? I know it must be, considering how the answers in the MC are all positive, and there is a negative sign in front of the constant.

Also all the talk about effective charge was good review for me, so it helps anyways.
 
The ionization energy is positive by definition. It is the energy you have to add to the electron to set it free. As its potential energy afterwards is zero (again by definition), it means the energy before was negative.
 

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