Developing a General Formula for a family of Curve Shapes

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around developing a general formula for a family of curve shapes that can be adjusted to represent different profiles. Participants explore various mathematical approaches to create an equation that generates curves with specific characteristics, particularly focusing on controlling the steepness and shape of the curves based on given parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a need for a general equation to generate curves that can vary from steep to nearly linear, emphasizing the importance of fixed points and the limitations of polynomial fits.
  • Another participant proposes a specific equation involving a parameter \( p \) to create the desired curve shapes, suggesting that \( p \) should be greater than or equal to 1.
  • A suggestion is made to use a Bezier curve as a potential solution, with one participant noting their prior experimentation with Bezier curves and interactive plotting tools.
  • A follow-up response expresses interest in understanding the derivation of the proposed equation and discusses the need for adjustable parameters to control the curve's bending point, highlighting the impact of different values of \( p \) on the curve's shape.
  • Visual aids, such as plots and 3D representations of the curves, are mentioned to illustrate the effects of varying \( p \) on the curve shapes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple approaches and models for generating the desired curves, with no consensus on a single solution. The discussion remains open-ended, with various suggestions and ongoing exploration of ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implementation of the proposed equations and the specific effects of parameter adjustments on curve behavior. The discussion highlights the need for further experimentation and refinement of ideas.

jmosk
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
I have a process that requires an operational profile that follows one of the curves in the diagram which follows. I wish to program into the device a general equation that will give me a family of curves of this general shape. The goal is to adjust the parameters of the equation so that I can generate the uppermost curve that rises quickly and at other times generate a curve like the lowest one that is almost approaching a straight line. These curves are not based on pre-existing data so I can't use a curve fitting program to generate an equation to generate additional points on the curve. I need to create a general equation that can then be used to generate any intermediate value along the curve.

In the diagram, x runs from 0 to 100 and y runs from 0 to 100. These represent percentages. So, looking at the diagram, for the uppermost curve at x=25%, y=80% while the lowermost curve is showing that at x=25%, y=50%. Since these curves represent percentages, the y value can never exceed 100. The points (0,0) and (100,100) are fixed points. You can't use a 3 point curve fit where the (25,80) point or (25,50) is the intermediate point, since such a polynomial will generate a parabola whose height exceeds 100. This curve looks more like part of a hyperbola or an arctan function of some sort.

Can anyone give me an idea of how I might find such an equation.
 

Attachments

  • CurvesProfile.jpg
    CurvesProfile.jpg
    28.3 KB · Views: 515
Physics news on Phys.org
What about

100\left(1-\left(-\frac{(x-100)}{100}\right)^p\right)^{1/p}

where p\geq 1
 
AlephZero said:
You could use a bezier curve.

Thank you. I was considering a bezier curve and was playing around just a few hours before your post with an interactive demo on WolframAlpha to plot different curves. I didn't quite get the series of shapes I am looking for but perhaps with more experimentation I will. I haven't looked into how the implement code to generate points along the curve, but I know its already been implemented in several Abode products.
 
micromass said:
What about

100\left(1-\left(-\frac{(x-100)}{100}\right)^p\right)^{1/p}

where p\geq 1

Thank you for this suggestion. I would be interested in understanding how you derived that the proposed equation would create the type of shape. I attached a few plots generated from the formula you posted. This is a great start.

For the general curve shape, I need to control the point along the curve where it begins the bend toward y=100. In the attached sample which utilizes the formula posted, for p=10, that bend is greatest at around x=5,while for p=5 it starts around x=10. I need the user of the device to have the option to set parameters to be able to move where this bend starts so that the vertical step from x=0 to x=1 is not so steep. I don't want a 1% change in x to cause an 80% change in y. You can see the difference in the shape of this set of curves versus the sample set that I posted in the original question.

I also posted a 3D plot of the family of curves generated from p=1 to 10. You can see how this equation is biased toward a rapid rise for small increments of x.
 

Attachments

  • SampleCurves.jpg
    SampleCurves.jpg
    14 KB · Views: 497
  • FamilyOfCurvesFromSuggestedEquation.jpg
    FamilyOfCurvesFromSuggestedEquation.jpg
    16.6 KB · Views: 520
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
10K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K