Difference between transforms and integrals/derivatives?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between transforms, integrals, and derivatives, exploring whether integrals and derivatives can be considered types of transforms and how they relate to each other. The scope includes conceptual clarification and technical reasoning regarding mathematical definitions and properties.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether all transforms are based on integrals or derivatives, with one asserting that they are not.
  • There is uncertainty regarding whether integrals and derivatives can be considered measurements of transforms, with some suggesting that certain types can be regarded as transforms.
  • Participants note that integral transforms, such as Fourier, Laplace, and Hilbert transforms, are special types of integrals involving kernels.
  • One participant proposes that transforms can be understood as operations like shrinking, expanding, or rotating points, suggesting that derivatives measure the rate of these transformations.
  • Questions arise about whether there are integrals or derivatives that do not qualify as transforms, with examples provided that yield numerical results rather than functions.
  • Another participant points out that the derivative of a function can be viewed as a constant function, which may relate to the discussion on transforms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether all integrals and derivatives can be classified as transforms, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments depend on specific definitions of transforms, integrals, and derivatives, and there are unresolved questions about the conditions under which certain integrals and derivatives may or may not be considered transforms.

onethatyawns
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I've looked around and am having a hard time finding common terms in definitions to know how they relate. Are all transforms based upon integrals/derivatives? Are integrals/derivatives a type of transform?

Are integrals/derivatives measurements of transforms? I believe that is correct, but I just want to make sure.

It also appears that there are multiple types of transforms, and some of them are called integral transforms. These are the Fourier, Laplace, Hilbert, etc transforms.
 
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onethatyawns said:
Are all transforms based upon integrals/derivatives?
No.
onethatyawns said:
Are integrals/derivatives measurements of transforms?
I am not sure what you are asking about here. But - certain types of integrals and certain types of derivatives can be regarded as transforms.
onethatyawns said:
It also appears that there are multiple types of transforms, and some of them are called integral transforms. These are the Fourier, Laplace, Hilbert, etc transforms.
Yes, but observe that these transforms are very special types of integrals. These integrals are of the type [itex]G(s)=\int K(x, s)f(x)dx[/itex], where K(x, s) is called a kernel and must observe certain conditions.
 
Svein said:
I am not sure what you are asking about here. But - certain types of integrals and certain types of derivatives can be regarded as transforms.
Are there integrals or derivatives that would not be transforms? Or are all integrals and derivatives a type of transforms?

Because, on a basic level, transforms are things like shrinking/expanding an area, displacing a set of points, and rotating a set of points. It would then make sense to call a derivative a form of transform or measurement of a transform because it measures how fast these transforms are taking place between two variables. It would make sense to call an integral a transform because, as defined by a Riemann sum with infinitesimal intervals, we're talking about shrinking sections of areas and adding them up. Or, maybe shrinking is not the correct term. Maybe slicing is better.

Does that make any sense?

Svein said:
Yes, but observe that these transforms are very special types of integrals. These integrals are of the type [itex]G(s)=\int K(x, s)f(x)dx[/itex], where K(x, s) is called a kernel and must observe certain conditions.
Yes, I found that very interesting.
 
onethatyawns said:
Are there integrals or derivatives that would not be transforms?
For example [itex]\int_{-1}^{1}xdx[/itex] and [itex]\frac{d}{dx}2x[/itex]. Both of these end up in a number, not another function.
 
Svein said:
Both of these end up in a number, not another function.

But the result of [itex]\frac{d}{dx} (2x)[/itex] can be viewed as the constant function [itex]c(x) = 2[/itex].
 

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