Differential equation - Green's Theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving an initial value problem involving a differential equation of the form $$u_{tt}(x, t)-u_{xt}(x, t)=f(x, t)$$ using Green's theorem. Participants explore the application of Green's theorem to derive solutions, analyze integral limits, and discuss boundary conditions within the context of wave equations and other related forms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the limits of the integral in relation (1), questioning why they are set as $x_0-ct_0+ct$ and $x_0+ct_0-ct$.
  • Another participant explains that these limits correspond to the characteristics of wave propagation in the context of the wave equation.
  • There is a discussion about the boundary condition $u(x, 0)=0$, with participants noting that it indicates no wave exists at time $t=0$.
  • A participant raises a question about whether similar points would be taken for a different equation, suggesting $x_0 - (t - t_0)$ and $x_0 + (t - t_0)$ might be used.
  • Another participant confirms the triangular region $\Omega$ used in the analysis and discusses the integral setup for the problem involving the equation $$u_{tt}(x, t)-u_{xt}(x, t)=f(x, t)$$.
  • Participants analyze the contributions from different boundary segments $C_1$, $C_2$, and $C_3$, with some expressing uncertainty about the correctness of their interpretations and calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretation of the boundary conditions and the setup of the integral limits for the wave equation. However, there are competing views regarding the application of these concepts to the non-wave equation, and the discussion remains unresolved on certain technical points and the correctness of specific calculations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the mathematical steps taken in the derivations, particularly concerning the limits of integrals and the implications of boundary conditions. The discussion reflects a reliance on specific definitions and assumptions that may not be universally accepted.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

I want to find the solution of the following initial value problem:
$$u_{tt}(x, t)-u_{xt}(x, t)=f(x, t), x \in \mathbb{R}, t>0 \\ u(x, 0)=0, x \in \mathbb{R} \\ u_t(x, 0)=0, x \in \mathbb{R}$$

using Green's theorem but I got stuck... I found the following example in my notes:
$$u_{tt}-c^2u_{xx}=f(x, t), x \in \mathbb{R}, t>0 \\ u(x, 0)=0, x \in \mathbb{R} \\ u_t(x, 0)=0, x \in \mathbb{R}$$

View attachment 4134

$$\iint_{\Omega}[u_{tt}(x, t)-c^2u_{xx}(x, t)]dxdt=\iint_{\Omega}f(x, t)dxdt=\int_0^{t_0} \left (\int_{x_0-ct_0+ct}^{x_0+ct_0-ct}f(x, t)dx\right )dt \tag 1$$

$$\iint_{\Omega}\left [\frac{\partial{Q}}{\partial{x}}-\frac{\partial{P}}{\partial{t}}\right ]dxdt=\int_{\partial{\Omega}}Pdx+Qdt$$

$$Q(x, t)=-c^2u_x \\ P(x, t)=-u_t$$

$$\iint_{\Omega}\left [u_{tt}(x, t)-c^2u_{xx}(x, t)\right ]dxdt=\int_{\partial{\Omega}}\left [-u_t(x, t)dx-c^2u_x(x, t)dt\right ]=\int_{C_1} [ \ \ ]+\int_{C_2} [ \ \ ]+\int_{C_3} [ \ \ ]$$

$(\int_{C_1} [ \ \ ]=cu(x_0, t_0), \int_{C_2} [ \ \ ]=cu(x_0, t_0), \int_{C_3} [ \ \ ]=0)$

View attachment 4135

$$\int_{C_3}[-u_t(x, 0)dx-c^2u_x(x, 0)dt], \text{ where } u_t(x, 0)=0, u_x(x, 0)=0$$ $$C_1: x+ct=x_0+ct_0 \Rightarrow dx+cdt=0$$
$$\int_{C_1}(-u_tdx-c^2u_xdt=\int_{C_1}-u_t(-cdt)-c^2u_x\left (-\frac{dx}{c}\right )=\int_{C_1}cu_tdt+cu_xdx=c \int_{C_1}u_tdt+u_xdx=c\int_{C_1}du=c(u(x_0, t_0)-u(x_0+ct_0, 0))\overset{ u(x_0+ct_0, 0)=0 }{ = }cu(x_0, t_0) \tag 2$$ $$2cu(x_0, t_0)=\int_0^{t_0}\int_{x_0-ct_0+ct}^{x_0+ct_0-ct}f(x, t)dx$$

$$u(x_0, t_0)=\frac{1}{2c}\iint_{c(x_0, t_0)}f(x, t)dxdt$$

I got stuck at the following:

Could you explain to me the first graph?? (Wondering)

Why are the limits of the integral at the relation $(1)$ the following: $x_0-ct_0+ct$ and $x_0+ct_0-ct$ ?? (Wondering)

Why does it stand at the relation $(2)$ that $u(x_0+ct_0, 0)=0$ ?? (Wondering)
 

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mathmari said:
Could you explain to me the first graph?? (Wondering)

Hey mathmari! (Mmm)

The first graph shows how the area $\Omega$ is chosen, which is a triangle.

Since we're talking about the wave equation, it makes sense to have 1 point at $(x_0,t_0)$ where a wave would start.
And to let it expand in both directions with speed $c$ for 2 more points at time $t$.
In the negative direction the wave will travel to $x_0 - c(t - t_0)$, while in the positive direction it will travel to $x_0 + c(t - t_0)$. (Thinking)
Why are the limits of the integral at the relation $(1)$ the following: $x_0-ct_0+ct$ and $x_0+ct_0-ct$ ?? (Wondering)

It's how we set up a line integral.
The left side the triangle is given by $x = x_0 - c(t - t_0)$ with $t_0 \le t \le t_1$ for some unspecified $t_1$. (Nerd)
Why does it stand at the relation $(2)$ that $u(x_0+ct_0, 0)=0$ ?? (Wondering)

Because the boundary condition $u(x, 0)=0$ is given for any $x \in \mathbb R$.
That is, at time $t=0$ there is no wave yet. (Wasntme)
 
I like Serena said:
The first graph shows how the area $\Omega$ is chosen, which is a triangle.

Since we're talking about the wave equation, it makes sense to have 1 point at $(x_0,t_0)$ where a wave would start.
And to let it expand in both directions with speed $c$ for 2 more points at time $t$.
In the negative direction the wave will travel to $x_0 - c(t - t_0)$, while in the positive direction it will travel to $x_0 + c(t - t_0)$. (Thinking)
When we don't have the wave equation as for example at the following problem:
$$u_{tt}(x, t)-u_{xt}(x, t)=f(x, t), x \in \mathbb{R}, t>0 \\ u(x, 0)=0, x \in \mathbb{R} \\ u_t(x, 0)=0, x \in \mathbb{R}$$
do we take the points $x_0 - (t - t_0)$ and $x_0 + (t - t_0)$ ?? (Wondering)

I like Serena said:
Because the boundary condition $u(x, 0)=0$ is given for any $x \in \mathbb R$.
That is, at time $t=0$ there is no wave yet. (Wasntme)

Oh yes, you're right! (Blush)
 
For the problem $$u_{tt}(x, t)-u_{xt}(x, t)=f(x, t), x \in \mathbb{R}, t>0 \\ u(x, 0)=0, x \in \mathbb{R} \\ u_t(x, 0)=0, x \in \mathbb{R}$$ do we have the following?? The two characteristics are $x=x_0$ and $x+t=x_0+t_0$.

The region $\Omega$ is the triangle:

View attachment 4138

$$\iint_{\Omega}[u_{tt}(x, t)-u_{xt}(x, t)]dxdt=\iint_{\Omega}f(x, t)dxdt=\int_0^{t_0} \left (\int_{x_0}^{x_0+t_0-t}f(x, t)dx\right )dt$$

$$\iint_{\Omega}\left [\frac{\partial{Q}}{\partial{x}}-\frac{\partial{P}}{\partial{t}}\right ]dxdt=\int_{\partial{\Omega}}Pdx+Qdt$$

$$Q(x, t)=-u_t \\ P(x, t)=-u_t$$

$$\iint_{\Omega}\left [u_{tt}(x, t)-u_{xt}(x, t)\right ]dxdt=\int_{\partial{\Omega}}\left [-u_t(x, t)dx-u_t(x, t)dt\right ]=\int_{C_1} [ \ \ ]+\int_{C_2} [ \ \ ]+\int_{C_3} [ \ \ ]$$

View attachment 4139

$$C_1: x+t=x_0+t_0 \Rightarrow dx+dt=0 \Rightarrow dx=-dt$$
$$\int_{C_1} \left [-u_t(x, t)dx-u_t(x, t)dt\right ]=\int_{C_1} \left [u_t(x, t)dt-u_t(x, t)dt\right ]=0$$

$$C_2: x=x_0 \Rightarrow dx=0$$
$$\int_{C_2} \left [-u_t(x, t)dx-u_t(x, t)dt\right ]= \int_{C_2} \left [-u_t(x, t)dt\right ]=-\int_{C_2} \left [du\right ]=u(x_0, t_0)-u(x_0, 0)=u(x_0, t_0)$$

$$C_3: t=0 \Rightarrow dt=0$$
$$\int_{C_3} \left [-u_t(x, 0)dx-u_t(x, 0)dt\right ]=0$$

So, we have $$u(x_0, t_0)=\int_0^{t_0} \left (\int_{x_0}^{x_0+t_0-t}f(x, t)dx\right )dt$$

Is this correct?? (Wondering) Could I improve something?? (Wondering)
 

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