MHB Differentiation on R^n ....need/ use of norms ....

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The discussion centers on the use of norm signs in the proof of Theorem 9.1.10 from Junghenn's "A Course in Real Analysis." The primary concern is the inconsistency in the application of norms around certain expressions, particularly in the definition of the derivative of a vector-valued function. It is clarified that while the absence of norm signs in some cases is acceptable, the presence of norms in the limit expression does not change the underlying mathematical meaning. Participants express confusion about the necessity of the norm signs in the numerator of the limit, concluding that their inclusion is superfluous. Overall, the conversation highlights the nuances of notation in mathematical proofs and the importance of clarity in definitions.
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I am reading Hugo D. Junghenn's book: "A Course in Real Analysis" ...

I am currently focused on Chapter 9: "Differentiation on [FONT=MathJax_AMS]R[FONT=MathJax_Math]n"

I need some help with an aspect of Theorem 9.1.10 ...

Theorem 9.1.10 reads as follows:
View attachment 7883The proof of Theorem 9.1.10 relies on the definition of the derivative of a vector-valued function of several variables ... that is, Definition 9.1.6 ... so I am providing the same ... as follows:
View attachment 7884
In Junghenn's proof of Theorem 9.1.10 above, we read the following:

" ... ... and

$$\eta (h) = \frac{ f(a + h ) - f(a) - df_a (h) }{ \| h \| }$$ if $$h \neq 0$$

... ... "Now there are no norm signs around this expression (with the exception of around $$h$$ in the denominator ...) ... and indeed no norm signs around the expression $$\lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \eta(h) = 0$$ ... nor indeed are there any norm signs in the limit shown in Definition 9.1.6 above (with the exception of around $$h$$ in the denominator ...) ...

... BUT ...

... ... this lack of norm signs seems in contrast to the last few lines of the proof of Theorem 9.1.10 as follows ... where we read ...

" ... ... Conversely if (9.6) holds for some $$\eta$$ and $$T$$, then $$\lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \frac{ \| f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th \| }{ \| h \| } = \lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \| \eta(h) \| = 0
$$

... ... "Here, in contrast to the case above, there are norm signs around the numerator and indeed around $$\eta(h)$$ ... ...
Can someone please explain why norm signs are used in the numerator and around $$\eta(h)$$ in one case ... yet not the other ...
Help will be appreciated ...

Peter
 
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Peter said:
In Junghenn's proof of Theorem 9.1.10 above, we read the following:

" ... ... and

$$\eta (h) = \frac{ f(a + h ) - f(a) - df_a (h) }{ \| h \| }$$ if $$h \neq 0$$

... ... "Now there are no norm signs around this expression (with the exception of around $$h$$ in the denominator ...) ... and indeed no norm signs around the expression $$\lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \eta(h) = 0$$ ... nor indeed are there any norm signs in the limit shown in Definition 9.1.6 above (with the exception of around $$h$$ in the denominator ...) ...

... BUT ...

... ... this lack of norm signs seems in contrast to the last few lines of the proof of Theorem 9.1.10 as follows ... where we read ...

" ... ... Conversely if (9.6) holds for some $$\eta$$ and $$T$$, then $$\lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \frac{ \| f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th \| }{ \| h \| } = \lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \| \eta(h) \| = 0
$$

... ... "Here, in contrast to the case above, there are norm signs around the numerator and indeed around $$\eta(h)$$ ... ...
Can someone please explain why norm signs are used in the numerator and around $$\eta(h)$$ in one case ... yet not the other ...
Help will be appreciated ...

Peter
$$f(a + h ) - f(a) - df_a (h)$$ is a vector in $\Bbb{R}^m$, and $h$ is a vector in $\Bbb{R}^n$. A vector can be multiplied (or divided) by a scalar, but not by another vector. So in the quotient $$\eta(h) = \frac{ f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th }{ \| h \| }$$ it is essential to have norm signs in the denominator. There are no norm signs in the numerator, and so $\eta(h)$ is a vector in $\Bbb{R}^m$.

When it comes to taking the limit as $h\to0$, it is always the case that a vector goes to zero if and only if its norm goes to zero. Therefore the conditions $\eta(h) \to0$ and $\|\eta(h)\| \to0$ are equivalent.

Finally, it follows from one of the axioms for a norm that $$\|\eta(h)\| = \left\|\frac{ f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th }{ \| h \| } \right\| = \frac{ \| f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th \| }{ \| h \| }.$$
 
Opalg said:
$$f(a + h ) - f(a) - df_a (h)$$ is a vector in $\Bbb{R}^m$, and $h$ is a vector in $\Bbb{R}^n$. A vector can be multiplied (or divided) by a scalar, but not by another vector. So in the quotient $$\eta(h) = \frac{ f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th }{ \| h \| }$$ it is essential to have norm signs in the denominator. There are no norm signs in the numerator, and so $\eta(h)$ is a vector in $\Bbb{R}^m$.

When it comes to taking the limit as $h\to0$, it is always the case that a vector goes to zero if and only if its norm goes to zero. Therefore the conditions $\eta(h) \to0$ and $\|\eta(h)\| \to0$ are equivalent.

Finally, it follows from one of the axioms for a norm that $$\|\eta(h)\| = \left\|\frac{ f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th }{ \| h \| } \right\| = \frac{ \| f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th \| }{ \| h \| }.$$
Thanks Opalg ... your post was very helpful ...

It was particularly helpful to me to be reminded that ... ... " ... ... When it comes to taking the limit as $h\to0$, it is always the case that a vector goes to zero if and only if its norm goes to zero. ... ... "

But ... given what you have said, I am still a bit perplexed as to why the author bothered to put norm signs around the numerator of ... ...$$\lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \frac{ \| f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th \| }{ \| h \| } = \lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \| \eta(h) \| = 0
$$

... given what you said, surely he need not have bothered .... can you comment ...Thank you again for your help ...

Peter
 
Peter said:
I am still a bit perplexed as to why the author bothered to put norm signs around the numerator of

$$\lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \frac{ \| f( a + h ) - f(a) - Th \| }{ \| h \| } = \lim_{ h \rightarrow 0 } \| \eta(h) \| = 0 $$

... given what you said, surely he need not have bothered .
I can't see any need for the norm signs. It makes no difference whether they are there or not.
 
Opalg said:
I can't see any need for the norm signs. It makes no difference whether they are there or not.
Thanks Opalg ...

I understand ... but that is a very important point to me ...

THanks again for clarifying the issue ...

Peter
 
We all know the definition of n-dimensional topological manifold uses open sets and homeomorphisms onto the image as open set in ##\mathbb R^n##. It should be possible to reformulate the definition of n-dimensional topological manifold using closed sets on the manifold's topology and on ##\mathbb R^n## ? I'm positive for this. Perhaps the definition of smooth manifold would be problematic, though.

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