Differentiation With 'x' Both in Base and in Exponent

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiation of functions where the variable 'x' appears both in the base and in the exponent, specifically focusing on the function x^(2x). Participants explore various methods for finding the derivative, including the use of logarithmic differentiation and the exponential form of the function.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about differentiating a function where 'x' is both in the base and exponent, recalling a suggestion from their teacher about using logarithms.
  • Another participant proposes rewriting the function as f(x) = e^(2x ln x) to facilitate differentiation, providing a step-by-step derivative calculation.
  • A third participant suggests using logarithmic differentiation by taking the natural logarithm of both sides, leading to a product rule application for differentiation.
  • Some participants discuss common mistakes in applying the product rule, emphasizing the importance of treating both functions as variable rather than constants during differentiation.
  • One participant introduces a more complex function, y = x^(x^(x^(...))), and outlines a method for differentiating it using logarithmic differentiation, demonstrating a recursive approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple methods for differentiation, and while there is some agreement on the use of logarithmic differentiation, no consensus is reached on a single preferred method. The discussion includes various approaches and highlights potential mistakes without resolving which is the most effective.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the product rule and logarithmic differentiation, but there are unresolved aspects regarding the application of these methods, particularly in the context of more complex functions.

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I have just begun studying differentiaition and I was getting confused with how to differentiate a function of x in which x is in the base and is in the exponent as well (for example, x^2x) with respect to a=hte cahnge in 'x'.
I remember my teacher telling me something about applying log, but, I got kinda drowsy... I wasn't able to learn it properly... now I need help... hehehe...
 
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The easiest way that I know how to find this derivative is to re-write:
x = e^{\ln(x)}

So we have:
f(x) = x^{2x} = e^{2x\ln x}

f'(x) = \dfrac{d}{dx}e^{2x\ln x} = e^{2x\ln x}\dfrac{d}{dx}(2x\ln x) = x^{2x}(\frac{2x}{x} + 2\ln x) = 2x^{2x}(1 + \ln x)
 
Last edited:
pbandjay use the exponential form. What your teacher was talking about was this:
to differentiate x2x, write y= x2x and take the natural logarithm of both sides: ln(y)= ln(x2x)= 2x ln(x). Now differentiate both sides. On the left, the derivative of ln(y), with respect to x, is (1/y) y'. On the right, use the product rule: (2x ln(x))'= (2) ln(x)+ (2x)(1/x)= 2ln(x)+ 2. So (1/y)y'= 2ln(x)+ 2 and y'= (2ln(x)+ 2)y= (2ln(x)+ 2)x2x.


A rather amusing point: There are two obvious mistakes one could make in differentiating f(x)g(x):

1) Treat g(x) as if it were a constant. Then you get (f(x)g(x))'= g(x)(f(x))g(x)-1f'(x)- which is, of course, wrong.

2) Treat f(x) as if it were a constant. Then you get (f(x)g(x))'= f(x)g(x) ln(f(x))g'(x)- which is also wrong.

To do it correctly, we can let y= f(x)g(x) so that ln(y)= ln(f(x)g(x))= g(x)ln(f(x) and differentiate both sides, using the product rule on the right.

(1/y) dy/dx= g'(x)ln(f(x)+ (1/f(x))g(x)f'(x) and, since y= f(x)g(x),
dy/dx= (f(x)g(x))'= f(x)g(x)ln(f(x)g'(x)+ f(x)g(x)-1f'(x),

the sum of the two mistaken derivatives!
 
HallsofIvy said:
the sum of the two mistaken derivatives!

part of the general method called "the chain rule for partial derivatives" which you (the OP) will meet later.

Another one:
Two mistaken ways to differentiate a product f(x) g(x) ... in one you think that f(x) is constant, in the other you think that g(x) is constant. BUT the product rule, the correct derivative, is just the sum of these two mistaken derivatives.
 
One problem I have always liked a lot that is very similar to this one is
y=x^{x^{x^{.^{.^{.}}}}}

To differentiate we can re-write: y = xy and apply the logarithm.

y=xy
Re-write: ln(y) = y ln(x)
Differentiate: y'/y = y/x + y' ln(x)
Re-arrange: y'/y - y' ln(x) = y/x ==> y'(1/y - lnx) = y/x ==> y'(1 - y lnx) = y2/x
Isolate y': y' = y2/[x(1 - y lnx)]

We have
y'= \frac{(x^{x^{x^{.^{.^{.}}}}})^2}{x(1-(x^{x^{x^{.^{.^{.}}}}})\ln x)}
 

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