Dirac comment on covariant derivatives

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Dirac's comments on the necessity of using covariant derivatives in the context of curvilinear coordinates, even in flat space. Participants explore the implications of this statement, particularly regarding the behavior of Christoffel symbols in various coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Dirac's assertion implies that covariant derivatives are essential for equations to hold across all coordinate systems, even in flat space.
  • Others clarify that Christoffel symbols are only zero in Cartesian coordinates on flat spacetime, while they are non-zero in other coordinate systems, such as polar coordinates.
  • A participant questions whether Christoffel symbols vanish in all rectilinear coordinate systems, not just Cartesian ones.
  • It is mentioned that the need for covariant derivatives extends beyond spatial coordinates to include non-inertial coordinates, where time-related Christoffel symbols represent fictitious forces.
  • Some participants agree that in rectilinear coordinates, the metric entries are constants, leading to vanishing Christoffel symbols, but there is uncertainty about non-orthogonal lines and their effect on these symbols.
  • A participant acknowledges a correction to their understanding of the metric in polar coordinates after considering the implications of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions under which Christoffel symbols vanish, with some asserting it applies to all rectilinear coordinates while others focus on Cartesian coordinates. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the behavior of Christoffel symbols in non-orthogonal coordinate systems.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about coordinate systems and the specific conditions under which Christoffel symbols are considered to vanish. The mathematical details of these conditions are not fully explored.

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TL;DR
Dirac says "Even if one is working with flat space ... one must write one's equations in terms of covariant derivatives if one wants them to hold in all systems of coordinates." But in flat space, covariant derivatives = ordinary derivatives. What does Dirac mean?
Dirac in "General Theory of Relativity" (top of p. 20) says "Even if one is working with flat space ... and one is using curvilinear coordinates, one must write one's equations in terms of covariant derivatives if one wants them to hold in all systems of coordinates."

This comment follows his conversion of the d'Alembert equation $$\Box V = \eta^{\mu\nu}V_{\mu\nu}=0$$ to covariant form $$g^{\mu\nu} V_{;\mu;\nu} = g^{\mu\nu} \left( V_{,\mu\nu}-\Gamma^\alpha_{\mu\nu}V_{,\alpha} \right) =0.$$ In flat space, all the ##\Gamma^\alpha_{\mu\nu}=0##, so covariant derivatives are the same as ordinary (partial) derivatives. For instance, if we work in the Euclidean plane but with polar (curvilinear) coordinates, the metric will change accordingly, but still the ##\Gamma^\alpha_{\mu\nu}=0##.

What exactly is Dirac trying to say here?
 
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The Christoffel symbols are only zero in Cartesian coordinates on flat spacetime. In other coordinate systems (e.g. polars on flat spacetime) they are not zero, so you need the full covariant form of derivatives.
 
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Right! Stupid question. Thank you. (Edit: actually the Christoffel symbols vanish in any system of rectilinear coordinates, not just cartesian...?)
 
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Ibix said:
The Christoffel symbols are only zero in Cartesian coordinates on flat spacetime. In other coordinate systems (e.g. polars on flat spacetime) they are not zero, so you need the full covariant form of derivatives.
And, of course, it's not just the spatial coordinates that you need to consider, it also applies to non-inertial coordinates such as Rindler coordinates (in which an accelerating rocket is at rest) or Born coordinates (in which a rotating disk is at rest). The time-related Christoffel symbols can be interpreted as representing "fictitious forces" such as "g-force" or "centrifugal force" respectively.
 
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Kostik said:
actually the Christoffel symbols vanish in any system of rectilinear coordinates, not just cartesian...?
They definitely don't need to be normalised the same in all dimensions, true, since ##\partial_ag_{bc}=0##. I'm not certain if non-orthogonal lines give zero Christoffel symbols without actually doing the maths.
 
In rectilinear coordinates the metric entries ##g_{\mu\nu}## are constants (but with off-diagonal terms), all derivatives are zero, so the Christoffel symbols vanish.

After I read your post I considered what ##g## and ##g^{-1}## look like in simple plane polar coordinates, and realized my original post was wrong.
 
Kostik said:
In rectilinear coordinates the metric entries are constants (but with off-diagonal terms)
Ah yes - then agreed.
 
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Kostik said:
Right! Stupid question. Thank you. (Edit: actually the Christoffel symbols vanish in any system of rectilinear coordinates, not just cartesian...?)
In any affine coordinate system.
 

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