Dirac Lagrangian not invariant under rotations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the invariance of the Dirac Lagrangian under rotations, exploring the implications of infinitesimal versus full rotations, and the role of the Pauli-Lubanski pseudovector operator. Participants are examining theoretical aspects of the Dirac equation and its Lagrangian formulation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that an infinitesimal rotation of the free-field Lagrangian introduces an extra term due to the non-commutation of the Dirac gamma matrices and the rotation generator.
  • Another participant suggests using the full rotation instead of the infinitesimal one, arguing that it leads to the original Lagrangian density remaining invariant.
  • A participant presents a specific form of the Lagrangian that is symmetric with respect to the Dirac spinor and its conjugate, and details the transformation under an infinitesimal rotation around the z-axis.
  • Further calculations are provided, showing that the variation of the Lagrangian results in non-zero terms, indicating a potential issue with invariance under rotations.
  • One participant acknowledges neglecting the effect of the rotation on the gamma matrices and expresses a need to reconsider this aspect.
  • Another participant questions the behavior of the derivative operator under Lorentz transformations, suggesting it may affect the analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the invariance of the Dirac Lagrangian under rotations, with some arguing for the invariance when using full rotations, while others present calculations that suggest the presence of additional terms that challenge this invariance. The discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of considering the transformation of the coordinate dependence of the Dirac spinor and the implications of the gamma matrices under rotations, which may influence the overall analysis.

pellman
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First, I need to be able to do equations in my post but it has been a long time since I posted here. Someone please point me to a resource that gives the how-to.

If you make a infinitesimal rotation of the free-field Lagrangian for the Dirac equation, you get an extra term because the Dirac gamma matrices and the rotation generator do not commute. I'll show you when I can. So what do we make of this?

There is more to the question, and I know it has something to do with the Pauli-Lubanski pseudovector operator. Anything you can tell me about the Pauli-Lubanski pseudovector would also be appreciated.

Todd
 
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The solution is to use the full rotation, rather than the infinitesimal one, which isn't a full rotation.

\mathcal{L}=\bar{\psi}\left(i\gamma^{\mu}\partial_{\mu}-m\right)\psi
\psi\rightarrow\Lambda_{\frac{1}{2}}\psi (Ignoring the transformation of the coordinate dependence of the Dirac spinor)
\bar{\psi}\rightarrow\psi^{\dagger}\Lambda_{\frac{1}{2}}^{\dagger}\gamma^0=\bar{\psi}\Lambda_{\frac{1}{2}}^{-1}
\mathcal{L}\rightarrow\bar{\psi}\Lambda_{\frac{1}{2}}^{-1}\left(i\gamma^{\mu '}\Lambda^{\mu}_{\mu '}\partial_{\mu}-m\right)\Lambda_{\frac{1}{2}}\psi

Which is exactly the same as the original Lagrangian density because

\Lambda_{\frac{1}{2}}^{-1}\gamma^{\mu '}\Lambda_{\frac{1}{2}}=\Lambda^{\mu '}_{\nu}\gamma^{\nu}
 
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Thanks, Perturbation. I'll get back as soon as I can figure out doing equations with LaTeX.
 
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I'll go ahead and be verbose. At least I get to have fun with the LaTeX. Maybe someone here can explain where I am going wrong.

The Lagrangian I am using is

\mathcal{L}=\frac{i}{2}\bar{\psi}\gamma^{\mu}(\partial_{\mu}\psi)-\frac{i}{2}(\partial_{\mu}\bar{\psi})\gamma^{\mu}\psi-m\bar{\psi}\psi

so that it is symmetric with respect to psi and psi-bar. Just seemed to sit well with me.

In the particular representation in which the gamma matrices take the form

\gamma^{0}=\left(\begin{array}{cc}0&1\\1&0\end{array}\right)
\gamma^{j}=\left(\begin{array}{cc}0&-\sigma_{j}\\\sigma_{j}&0\end{array}\right)

a rotation of the four-spinor around the z-axis is given by

\psi\rightarrow\left(\begin{array}{cc}e^{\frac{i}{2}\sigma_{z}\theta}&0\\0&e^{\frac{i}{2}\sigma_{z}\theta}\end{array}\right)\psi.

For infinitesimal rotations this is

\psi\rightarrow\left[1+\frac{i}{2}\left(\begin{array}{cc}\sigma_{z}&0\\0&\sigma_{z}\end{array}\right)\theta\right]\psi.

or

\delta\psi=\frac{i}{2}\tau_{z}\theta\psi

where

\tau_{z}=\left(\begin{array}{cc}\sigma_{z}&0\\0&\sigma_{z}\end{array}\right).

The conjugate is

\delta\bar{\psi}=-\frac{i}{2}\theta\bar{\psi}\tau_{z}.

Here we go.


\delta\mathcal{L}=\frac{i}{2}\delta\bar{\psi}\gamma^{\mu}(\partial_{\mu}\psi)+\frac{i}{2}\bar{\psi}\gamma^{\mu}(\partial_{\mu}\delta\psi)-\frac{i}{2}(\partial_{\mu}\delta\bar{\psi})\gamma^{\mu}\psi-\frac{i}{2}(\partial_{\mu}\bar{\psi})\gamma^{\mu}\delta\psi-m\delta\bar{\psi}\psi-m\bar{\psi}\delta\psi

=\frac{1}{4}\theta\bar{\psi}\tau_{z}\gamma^{\mu}(\partial_{\mu}\psi)-\frac{1}{4}\theta\bar{\psi}\gamma^{\mu}\tau_{z}(\partial_{\mu}\psi)-\frac{1}{4}\theta(\partial_{\mu}\bar{\psi})\tau_{z}\gamma^{\mu}\psi+\frac{1}{4}(\partial_{\mu}\bar{\psi})\gamma^{\mu}\tau_{z}\theta\psi+0

\delta\mathcal{L}=\frac{1}{4}\theta\bar{\psi}[\tau_{z},\gamma^{\mu}](\partial_{\mu}\psi)-\frac{1}{4}\theta(\partial_{\mu}\bar{\psi})[\tau_{z},\gamma^{\mu}]\psi

and [\tau_{z},\gamma^{\mu}]\neq0
 
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Also, I ignored "the transformation of the coordinate dependence of the Dirac spinor" above just as Perturbation did in his post. The result of the coordinate part of the transformation results in a term in the transformed Lagrangian which is the expected scalar transformation. The remaining \delta\mathcal{L} in my calculation above should vanish if \mathcal{L} is a scalar under rotations.

Looking at Perturbation's post, apparently I have neglected the effect of the rotation on the gamma matrices. I'll have to think on that for a while.

Todd
 
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The gamma matrices don't change, you just defined what they are. But what happens with \partial_\mu under a Lorentz transformation?
 
Thanks. I have to spend some more time thinking about rotations. The question of this thread came out trying to understand spin as discussed in my next thread: What is spin?
 

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