Why are the gamma-matrices invariant?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the invariance of gamma-matrices in the context of Dirac's theory of fermions, particularly regarding their behavior under Lorentz transformations. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and alternative approaches to understanding the role of gamma-matrices in quantum mechanics and general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why gamma-matrices are considered constants under Lorentz transformations, suggesting that if they are treated as vectors and wave-functions as scalars, the physics remains consistent.
  • Others argue that Lorentz transformations act on all objects in spacetime, including gamma-matrices, which raises questions about their treatment as constants.
  • A paper referenced by a participant claims that the physical content of the Dirac equation remains unchanged regardless of whether spinors transform under Lorentz transformations or gamma-matrices are constant.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of using tetrads or vierbeins in relation to the Dirac equation and express curiosity about the traditional approach versus newer methods.
  • There is mention of the gamma-matrices being complex-number matrices in the context of quantum field theory, with questions raised about their necessity to be treated as such.
  • Participants note that in curved spacetime, gamma-matrices can depend on the spacetime point, suggesting they are not merely complex numbers but can be functions of position.
  • Some contributions highlight that in quantum gravity, the vierbein may become a field operator, which could affect the status of gamma-matrices.
  • One participant proposes a speculative idea involving a quantity related to the metric tensor, indicating ongoing exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the treatment of gamma-matrices and their invariance under Lorentz transformations. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on the necessity of treating gamma-matrices as constants or their mathematical representation.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the implications of different formalisms, particularly in relation to curved spacetime and the role of vierbeins. There are unresolved questions regarding the mathematical steps involved in the transformation properties of gamma-matrices.

  • #61
Sam, you definitely know geometry. Perhaps you can help me with the following question whose explicit answer I haven't seen anywhere: Let's take Minkowski flat spacetime M4 and its de Rham differential complex built on the cotangent bundle by the exterior derivative d. How exactly do you put an electromagnetic field (one form field ##A_{\mu}## judged in terms of the de Rham complex) in/on spacetime by means of the so-called U(1) gauge bundle, or more precisely why is the space-time differentiation (flat Levi-Civita connection) "equal" or "similar" to the connection in the gauge bundle?
 
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  • #62
dextercioby said:
Sam, you definitely know geometry. Perhaps you can help me with the following question whose explicit answer I haven't seen anywhere: Let's take Minkowski flat spacetime M4 and its de Rham differential complex built on the cotangent bundle by the exterior derivative d. How exactly do you put an electromagnetic field (one form field ##A_{\mu}## judged in terms of the de Rham complex) in/on spacetime by means of the so-called U(1) gauge bundle, or more precisely why is the space-time differentiation (flat Levi-Civita connection) "equal" or "similar" to the connection in the gauge bundle?

And you definitely know how to put me in trouble. Well, it is not really difficult, but to put a connection on principal bundle requires many definitions and then few theorems take your structure closer to the Maurer-Cartan form and Cartan structure equation.
Good account with applications to Dirac and ‘t Hooft-Polykov monopoles, and instantons can be found in
[1] M. Gockeler & T. Schucker : “Differential Geometry, gauge theories, and gravity”, Cambridge University Press. 1990. Chapter 9 & 10.
And my favourite
[2] J. A. de Azcarraga & J. M. Izquierdo: “Lie groups, Lie algebras: cohomology and some application in physics”, Cambridge University Press. 1995. Chapter 2.
 
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  • #63
samalkhaiat said:
He is absolutely correct, but you are wrong. Weinberg did not, does not and will never say that “Dirac spinor is a Lorentz scalar”, not even in his dreams.
Statement 1 (Weinberg): Dirac field is a coordinate scalar.
Statement 2 (me): A coordinate transformation may be a Lorentz transformation, in which case Dirac field is a coordinate Lorentz scalar.

Please explain how can it be that Statement 1 is right and Statement 2 wrong? Are you saying that a coordinate transformation cannot be a Lorentz transformation?
 
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  • #64
A bispinor is a bispinor.

I'm referring only to the usual flat Minkowski spacetime, because I'm not very familiar with spinors in GR. As far as I remember there you have to introduce vierbeins (tetrads), and there can be spinors only in spacetimes where you have tetrades.

In Minkowski space a bispinor (Dirac spinor) behaves under a Lorentz transformation as
$$\psi'(x')=S(\Lambda) \psi(\Lambda^{-1} x'),$$
where
$$S=\exp \left (-\frac{\mathrm{i}}{4} \omega_{\mu \nu} \sigma^{\mu \nu} \right ) \quad \text{with} \quad \sigma^{\mu \nu} = \frac{\mathrm{i}}{2} [\gamma^{\mu},\gamma^{\nu}].$$
The ##\gamma^{\mu}## matrices are "Minkowski vectors" in the sense that
$$S^{-1}(\Lambda) \gamma^{\mu} S(\Lambda)={\Lambda^{\mu}}_{\nu} \gamma^{\nu}.$$
 
  • #65
vanhees71 said:
The ##\gamma^{\mu}## matrices are "Minkowski vectors" in the sense that
$$S^{-1}(\Lambda) \gamma^{\mu} S(\Lambda)={\Lambda^{\mu}}_{\nu} \gamma^{\nu}.$$
Indeed. The left part of your last equation again satisfies the Clifford algebra, hence it can be used as a new set of γ-matrices. Using that set requires a transformation of the wavefunction that recovers the original wavefunction, only this time there was no frame change. Also, by your last equation that new set is just the Lorentz-transformed original set. That is what has been argued here.
 
  • #66
vanhees71 said:
The ##\gamma^{\mu}## matrices are "Minkowski vectors" in the sense that
$$S^{-1}(\Lambda) \gamma^{\mu} S(\Lambda)={\Lambda^{\mu}}_{\nu} \gamma^{\nu}.$$


Even though you used a quotation mark “Minkowski vector”, the statement is still misleading:
1) As we all know, objects carrying space-time indices need not be space-time tensors. For example the Levi-Civita connection \Gamma^{\mu}_{\nu\rho} is not a type-(1,2) tensor, and certainly the Dirac \gamma^{\mu} is not a vector.
2) The above equation is not a Lorentz (group) transformation (\mbox{LT}) equation: Notice that on the left-hand-side you have an (matrix) action on the spin indices
S^{-1}_{mp}\gamma^{\mu}_{pq}S_{qn}, while on the right-hand-side the action is on the vector index only
\Lambda^{\mu}{}_{\nu}\gamma^{\nu}_{mn}.
So, the correct transformation of \gamma^{\mu}_{mn} under the matrix spin group of Lorentz must be
\mbox{LT}(\gamma^{\mu}_{mn}) = \Lambda^{\mu}{}_{\nu} \ S^{-1}_{mp} \ \gamma^{\nu}_{pq} \ S_{qn} = \gamma^{\mu}_{mn} .
This is exactly what I proved in my first post in this thread: Under Lorentz transformations, the Dirac gamma’s are invariant numerical matrices.
 
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  • #67
samalkhaiat said:
under the matrix spin group of Lorentz ...
the Dirac gamma’s are invariant numerical matrices.
I think that nobody here doubts that. But it looks as if you fail to realize that there is a thing called the group of Lorentz coordinate transformations, which is not the same thing as matrix spin group of Lorentz. Even though the group is the same, the corresponding transformations are not. (Your mathematics is very sophisticated, in fact much more sophisticated than mine, so I'm sure you know that, in abstract algebra, the concept of abstract group is one thing, while realization of group as a group of transformations of some concrete objects is another. By choosing different objects on which a transformation will act, one obtains different realizations of the same group.)

The Lorentz coordinate transformation is just a special case of a general coordinate transformation (the diffeomorphism group), so what is true for general coordinate transformations must also be true for Lorentz coordinate transformations. So if the Dirac gamma transforms as a vector under general coordinate transformations (and Weinberg says it does), then the same Dirac gamma transforms as a vector under Lorentz coordinate transformations (which is what I repeat over and over again).

And this is not in a conflict with your correct claim that Dirac gamma is invariant under matrix spin group of Lorentz. We are both right, and the conflict is only apparent because
(i) we talk about different realizations of the same Lorentz group, and
(ii) we use a somewhat different language (admittedly, yours being more sophisticated than mine, creating an illusion that your statements sound "more correct" than mine).
 
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  • #68
PatrickUrania said:
Indeed. The left part of your last equation again satisfies the Clifford algebra, hence it can be used as a new set of γ-matrices. Using that set requires a transformation of the wavefunction that recovers the original wavefunction, only this time there was no frame change. Also, by your last equation that new set is just the Lorentz-transformed original set. That is what has been argued here.
There are no wave functions in relativistic QT, only field operators!
 
  • #69
samalkhaiat said:
Even though you used a quotation mark “Minkowski vector”, the statement is still misleading:
1) As we all know, objects carrying space-time indices need not be space-time tensors. For example the Levi-Civita connection \Gamma^{\mu}_{\nu\rho} is not a type-(1,2) tensor, and certainly the Dirac \gamma^{\mu} is not a vector.
2) The above equation is not a Lorentz (group) transformation (\mbox{LT}) equation: Notice that on the left-hand-side you have an (matrix) action on the spin indices
S^{-1}_{mp}\gamma^{\mu}_{pq}S_{qn}, while on the right-hand-side the action is on the vector index only
\Lambda^{\mu}{}_{\nu}\gamma^{\nu}_{mn}.
So, the correct transformation of \gamma^{\mu}_{mn} under the matrix spin group of Lorentz must be
\mbox{LT}(\gamma^{\mu}_{mn}) = \Lambda^{\mu}{}_{\nu} \ S^{-1}_{mp} \ \gamma^{\nu}_{pq} \ S_{qn} = \gamma^{\mu}_{mn} .
This is exactly what I proved in my first post in this thread: Under Lorentz transformations, the Dirac gamma’s are invariant numerical matrices.
Well, I used the usual physicist's slang, according to which a "Lorentz transformation" of a spinor or tensor field is defined by the representation these fields live on. For the Dirac-spinor field this means
$$[\hat{U}(\Lambda) \hat{\psi}(x) \hat{U}^{\dagger}(\Lambda)]^a={S^a}_{b}(\Lambda) \hat{\psi}^b(\Lambda^{-1} x).$$
Of course the Dirac matrices act in spinor space (indices ##a## and ##b## in the formula).
 
  • #70
vanhees71 said:
There are no wave functions in relativistic QT, only field operators!
In QFT you are absolutely right. In Dirac theory it's still about a wave function.
 
  • #71
PatrickUrania said:
In QFT you are absolutely right. In Dirac theory it's still about a wave function.
Or you can call it classical field, so that everybody is happy. :smile:
 
  • #72
Well, but then you need a lot of handwaving, called "hole theory", and you end up with something that's a complicated version of quantum field theory. That's why I prefer to say relativistic QT should be introduced as relativistic QFT right away.
 

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