Discovering Bosons: The Fascinating World of Particle Physics Explained

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    Bosons
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of bosons in particle physics, particularly in relation to the Higgs boson and its significance in the Standard Model. Participants explore the nature of bosons, their role in mediating forces, and the implications of discovering the Higgs boson at the LHC.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants seek a basic explanation of what a boson is and why they are significant in physics.
  • One participant explains that bosons are integer spin particles that obey specific commutation relations, contrasting them with fermions, which have half-integer spin.
  • Another participant notes that bosons, particularly gauge bosons, mediate forces such as electromagnetism through virtual photons.
  • There is a discussion about whether bosons make up protons, neutrons, and electrons, with some clarifying that while protons and electrons are not bosons, bosons like photons are involved in their interactions.
  • Participants express curiosity about the implications of finding or not finding the Higgs boson at the LHC, with some suggesting that not finding it could still be significant.
  • Questions arise regarding the difference between bosons and gauge bosons, with references to gauge invariance in Lagrangians.
  • Some participants speculate about future discoveries in particle physics, questioning what the next missing particle might be after the Higgs boson.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the implications of finding the Higgs boson or the significance of bosons in relation to protons and electrons. Multiple competing views remain regarding the importance of the Higgs boson and the nature of bosons versus gauge bosons.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific definitions and assumptions about particle physics, and there are unresolved questions about the implications of various discoveries in the field.

thharrimw
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I've heard a lot about LHC and how one of it's goles is to make a higgs boson but i don't know what a boson even is so could someone give me an explanation about what a boson it and why pphysicst are so intersted in them?
:confused:
 
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thharrimw said:
I've heard a lot about LHC and how one of it's goles is to make a higgs boson but i don't know what a boson even is so could someone give me an explanation about what a boson it and why pphysicst are so intersted in them?
:confused:

The particle states in Hilbert space are represented by the irreducible representations of the Lorentz group. The field operators, which contain the creation/annihilation particle operators are represented by the representations of the Lorentz group too.
It can be see that the half-integer spin fields have to obey the certain anticommutation relations, these are fermions; integer spin fields have to obey certain commutation relations, these are boson. The reason is to satisfy the causality, for example, if the generic field [tex]\psi(x)[/tex] satisfies
[tex][\psi(x),\psi(y)]_{\pm} = 0[/tex] for [tex]x,y[/tex] spacelike separated, where [tex][]_{\pm}[/tex] denotes commutator or anticommutator, then two measurement performed at two spacelike separated location can be no related at all. This is called microcausality.

In short, the micro-causality demands for certain fields, they must obey certain algebra. One of the class of fields is called fermion, the other class of fields is called boson. The composition of fermions can form a boson.

In SM, bosons are the gauge particles and Higgs, the fundamental matter particles are all fermions.

Cheers
 
If you stack apples (or electrons, or fermions) in a box, the box will be filled with them at some point. However, you can not fill a box with bosons (say photons for instance).
 
You can also say that a boson have integer spin (0,1,2,3...)

and a fermion have spin 1/2, 3/2 etc..

Particle physicsits are interested in these bosons, a certain type of bosons, called Gauge bosons, since they are the force mediators of a force. For instance the electro magnetic force is mediated by virtual photons between electrically charged particles.

The higgs boson is of interest since it is the "last" missing piece of the theory that governs all of this with force mediating particles etc, roughly speaking. The theory that explain how particles interact, the standard model, is the best tested and verified physical theory that exists, but there is one particle missing, and this is a paradox -> Let's search for the higgs boson at LHC and hope we'll find it :-)
 
so do they make up protons, netrons,and electrons?
 
thharrimw said:
so do they make up protons, netrons,and electrons?

As malawi_glenn said, "normal matter" like protons and electrons are not bosons. However, an electron is a charged particle and creates an electromagnetic field, which will affect nearby electrons. The electromagnetic field consists of particles of light called photons, which are a type of boson. So bosons are responsible for the interactions of "normal matter" such as electrons.
 
thharrimw said:
so do they make up protons, netrons,and electrons?

What do make up protons, neutrons and electrons? Neutrons and protons are made up of quarks and gluons, and electrons are electrons.
 
malawi_glenn said:
Let's search for the higgs boson at LHC and hope we'll find it :-)

Don't you think it might be more interesting if they don't find it?:-p
 
atyy said:
Don't you think it might be more interesting if they don't find it?:-p

well hehe, it would be hard to get new $$$ to make a new experiment ;-)
 
  • #10
so bosons are particles that control the interactions of electrons? what are quarks and gluons?
 
  • #11
thharrimw said:
so bosons are particles that control the interactions of electrons? what are quarks and gluons?

there is no equivalence between bosons and gauge bosons... there are bosons which are not gauge bosons.

Use google.. you'll find a lot of answers there. Then ask questions about what you find there.
 
Last edited:
  • #12
what's the difference between bosons and gage bosons?
 
  • #13
thharrimw said:
what's the difference between bosons and gage bosons?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_boson

Gauge bosons are bosons which arises in order to give gauge invariance to a lagrangian.

Bosons are integer spin particles in general.

It's like asking "what's the difference between animals and lions" :-)
 
  • #14
malawi_glenn said:
well hehe, it would be hard to get new $$$ to make a new experiment ;-)
I disagree with that. There were other BIG devices which have not found what they were meant to find, at they still are in fancy. See the quark-gluon story for instance :rolleyes:
 
  • #15
humanino said:
I disagree with that. There were other BIG devices which have not found what they were meant to find, at they still are in fancy. See the quark-gluon story for instance :rolleyes:

hehe I know, I'm just so excited that LHC is running that I can't think clear all the time ;-)
 
  • #16
humanino said:
I disagree with that. There were other BIG devices which have not found what they were meant to find, at they still are in fancy. See the quark-gluon story for instance :rolleyes:
To be fait I should add, of course, that not finding the Higgs boson would certainly not be a failure at all ! On the contrary.
 
  • #17
I just wonder, if they find the Higgs Boson, what would be the next missing particle. It's just a non ending mystery. If they find about what happened billionth of a second after the Big Bang, they will ask what happened a little bit earlier of that moment.
 
  • #18
Sakha said:
I just wonder, if they find the Higgs Boson, what would be the next missing particle. It's just a non ending mystery. If they find about what happened billionth of a second after the Big Bang, they will ask what happened a little bit earlier of that moment.

well now the Higgs boson is not particilar important for cosmology...
But we still don't konw what dark matter and dark energy is, that would be the "next step".
 

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