Discussion of low cost hydrogen methods

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on exploring low-cost methods for hydrogen production, particularly through alternative materials to scrap aluminum in the known reaction involving aluminum and water. Participants consider various approaches, including the feasibility and economics of different metals and processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes investigating substitutes for scrap aluminum in the hydrogen production reaction with water, emphasizing the need for abundant materials.
  • Another participant suggests that a low-temperature process for the gas water shift reaction might be more cost-effective than using aluminum, considering the high manufacturing costs of metals.
  • A different participant raises concerns about the cost implications of using gold and the challenges of recycling aluminum, while also mentioning alternative metals like magnesium and referencing the HELIOS project for further exploration.
  • One participant questions the overall energy savings and environmental benefits of using aluminum, highlighting the energy-intensive process required to produce aluminum from its oxidized form.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the viability and cost-effectiveness of using aluminum versus other materials for hydrogen production. There is no consensus on the best approach or the overall economic feasibility of the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants note various limitations, including the high cost of metals, the energy requirements for aluminum production, and the challenges in recycling processes. Specific details about the HELIOS project and the conversion of MgO to magnesium remain unclear.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to researchers and practitioners in the fields of chemical engineering, renewable energy, and materials science, particularly those focused on hydrogen production and cost-effective energy solutions.

lplchem
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I would like to explore possibilities of production of really cheap hydrogen by finding a substitute for scrap aluminum in the current hydrogen on-demand known reaction:

2Al + 6H2O -> 2Al(OH)3 + 3H2 (catalyzed by specially treated carbon, carried out at 85 °C.)

The above reaction is scalable from small rate and pressure to very high rate and pressure.

(I hope the subscripts worked out OK).

It is highly advantageous in this discussion to start out with something that is highly abundant.
 
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Without knowing the restrictions you are interested in... try this. I would think a low temperature process for the gas water shift reaction is much cheaper than aluminum/ water if you take into account the high cost of manufacturing the metal.
 
Thank you for the reference article. Of course, one must consider the cost of the gold, and the role this would have on the overall cost of operating in such a way. Obviously, there does not seems to be a way of reducing the cost of scrap aluminum (a substantial portion of which actually does not get recycled). Other metals come to mind including magnesium, the Cr-Nd:YAG laser (solar-pumped), see the HELIOS project design, but I could not get much information on the actual reactor where MgO is converted back to Magnesium (and oxygen). For instance, how do they intend to prevent the Mg and O2 from simply reacting as the products leave the high temperature zone?
 
You are not producing energy, nor saving the world by saving on CO2 production surely? Because first you have to make your aluminium from an oxidised form of the element, a notoriously energy-intensive process.

Maybe there are positive economics from the transportability etc. of the hydrogen. Or maybe the collection of all the aluminium foil and old pans we throw away can be organised?
 
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