Dissipation function is homogeneous in ##\dot{q}## second degree proof

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on proving that Rayleigh's dissipation function is homogeneous of degree 2 in the generalized velocities ##\dot{q}##. Participants explore the mathematical formulation and implications of the dissipation function in the context of generalized coordinates and velocities.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the dissipation function and transformation equations, seeking a proof of homogeneity in ##\dot{q}##.
  • Another participant provides a formulation of the dissipation function in terms of generalized velocities and suggests that it is homogeneous of degree 2 based on the assumption that the position vectors do not depend on ##\dot{q}##.
  • A participant questions the absence of time dependence in the velocity expression and the coefficients in the dissipation function.
  • Another participant acknowledges an oversight regarding the dependence of the position vectors on time and emphasizes the need for the correct formulation of the dissipation function.
  • Further clarification is provided that the function ##g_{jk}##, which appears in the dissipation function, depends only on the generalized coordinates and not on the velocities, supporting the claim of homogeneity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express some agreement on the formulation of the dissipation function and its dependence on the generalized coordinates. However, there is a disagreement regarding the implications of explicit time dependence in the position vectors, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved on this aspect.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations regarding the assumptions made about the dependence of the position vectors on time and the coefficients in the dissipation function, which may affect the proof of homogeneity.

Kashmir
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We have Rayleigh's dissipation function, defined as
##
\mathcal{F}=\frac{1}{2} \sum_{i}\left(k_{x} v_{i x}^{2}+k_{y} v_{i j}^{2}+k_{z} v_{i z}^{2}\right)
##

Also we have transformation equations to generalized coordinates as
##\begin{aligned} \mathbf{r}_{1} &=\mathbf{r}_{1}\left(q_{1}, q_{2}, \ldots, q_{3 N-k}, t\right) \\ & \vdots \\ \mathbf{r}_{N} &=\mathbf{r}_{N}\left(q_{1}, q_{2}, \ldots, q_{3 N-k}, t\right) \end{aligned}##

How can I prove that the dissipation function is homogeneous of degree 2 in ##\dot{q}##?
 
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You have ##\vec{v}_i=\dot{\vec{r}}_i=\dot{q}^j \partial_j \vec{r}_i## and thus
$$\mathcal{F}=\frac{1}{2} \sum_i \dot{q}^j \dot{q}^k (\partial_j \vec{r}_i) \cdot (\partial_k \vec{r}_i).$$
Sinc the ##\vec{r}_i## are functions of the ##q^j## and ##t## but not of ##\dot{q}^j## by assumption you have
$$\mathcal{F}(q,\lambda \dot{q},t)=\lambda^2 \mathcal{F}(q,\dot{q},t).$$
QED.
 
vanhees71 said:
You have ##\vec{v}_i=\dot{\vec{r}}_i=\dot{q}^j \partial_j \vec{r}_i## and thus
$$\mathcal{F}=\frac{1}{2} \sum_i \dot{q}^j \dot{q}^k (\partial_j \vec{r}_i) \cdot (\partial_k \vec{r}_i).$$
Sinc the ##\vec{r}_i## are functions of the ##q^j## and ##t## but not of ##\dot{q}^j## by assumption you have
$$\mathcal{F}(q,\lambda \dot{q},t)=\lambda^2 \mathcal{F}(q,\dot{q},t).$$
QED.
Thank you. Why not a partial with time term in ##\vec{v}_i=\dot{\vec{r}}_i=\dot{q}^j \partial_j \vec{r}_i## also where did the kx, ky, kz term go?
 
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Kashmir said:
How can I prove that the dissipation function is homogeneous of degree 2 in ?
if ##\boldsymbol r_i## depends on t explicitly then it is not so
 
Last edited:
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Indeed, I've overlooked this and also forgot the coefficients. So we must have
$$\vec{r}_i=\vec{r}_i(q)$$
and thus
$$\dot{\vec{r}_i}=\dot{q}^j \partial_{j} \vec{r}_i(q)$$
and
$$\mathcal{F}=\frac{1}{2} \sum_i \vec{v}_i^{\text{T}} \hat{K} \vec{v}_i = \frac{1}{2} \dot{q}^j \dot{q}^k g_{jk}$$
with
$$g_{jk} = \sum_i (\partial_j \vec{r}_i)^{\text{T}} \hat{K} \partial_k \vec{r}_i.$$
Now indeed ##g_{jk}## is a function of the ##q## only and don't depend on ##\dot{q}##, and thus indeed ##\mathcal{F}## is a homogeneous function of degree 2 in the generalized velocities ##\dot{q}##.
 
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wrobel said:
if ##\boldsymbol r_i## depends on t explicitly then it is not so
Yes, thank you. :)
 
vanhees71 said:
Indeed, I've overlooked this and also forgot the coefficients. So we must have
$$\vec{r}_i=\vec{r}_i(q)$$
and thus
$$\dot{\vec{r}_i}=\dot{q}^j \partial_{j} \vec{r}_i(q)$$
and
$$\mathcal{F}=\frac{1}{2} \sum_i \vec{v}_i^{\text{T}} \hat{K} \vec{v}_i = \frac{1}{2} \dot{q}^j \dot{q}^k g_{jk}$$
with
$$g_{jk} = \sum_i (\partial_j \vec{r}_i)^{\text{T}} \hat{K} \partial_k \vec{r}_i.$$
Now indeed ##g_{jk}## is a function of the ##q## only and don't depend on ##\dot{q}##, and thus indeed ##\mathcal{F}## is a homogeneous function of degree 2 in the generalized velocities ##\dot{q}##.
Got it. Thank you very much. :)
 
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