Distance between the centers of two circles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical problem of determining the distance between the centers of two circles, particularly in the context of tangents and right triangles. Participants explore geometric relationships and apply the Pythagorean theorem to derive expressions related to the radii of the circles and the distances involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants present a series of equations derived from the Pythagorean theorem to relate the distances and radii of the circles.
  • One participant notes that the locus of point P is a vertical line through point D, depending only on the radii and the distance a, independent of other variables.
  • Another participant expresses appreciation for the diagrams created using TikZ, while also cautioning against copying their coding style due to its perceived clumsiness.
  • There are multiple references to the same mathematical derivations, indicating a collaborative effort to refine the understanding of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical approach and the use of the Pythagorean theorem, but there is no consensus on the clarity or elegance of the TikZ diagrams, as well as the coding practices associated with them. The discussion remains open with various interpretations and contributions.

Contextual Notes

Some mathematical steps and assumptions are not fully resolved, and the discussion includes various interpretations of the relationships between the variables involved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in geometry, mathematical reasoning, and the application of the Pythagorean theorem in problem-solving contexts may find this discussion beneficial.

Kobzar
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Hello, everybody:

I am a philologist who is fond of mathematics, but who unfortunately has just an elementary high school knowledge of them. I am translating La leçon de Platon, by Dom Néroman (La Bégude de Mazenc, Arma Artis, 2002), which deals with music theory and mathematics in the works of Plato. The problem which brings me here is not about translation, but about mathematics. Please see attachment.

Thank you very much in advance for whatever answer, and best regards.
 

Attachments

Mathematics news on Phys.org
Reference the attached marked diagram.

Line segments PB and PA are tangent to each circle. As such, they form right angles $PAC$ and $PBC'$

Using Pythagoras ...

$PC^2 = R^2 + PA^2 \implies PA^2 = PC^2 - R^2$
$PC'^2 = R'^2 + PB^2 \implies PB^2 = PC'^2 - R'^2$

$PA^2 = PB^2 \implies PC^2 - R^2 = PC'^2 - R'^2$

from the last equation above ...

$R'^2 - R^2 = PC'^2 - PC^2$

using Pythagoras again ...

$R'^2 - R^2 = (PD^2+C'D^2) - (PD^2+CD^2)$

$R'^2 - R^2 = C'D^2 - CD^2$

factoring the right side ...

$R'^2 - R^2 = (C'D - CD)(C'D+CD)$

note $C'D = a - CD$ and $a = C'D + CD$

substituting ...

$R'^2 - R^2 = (a - 2CD)(a)$

$\dfrac{R'^2-R^2}{a} = a - 2CD$

$2CD = a - \dfrac{R'^2-R^2}{a}$

$2CD = \dfrac{a^2}{a} - \dfrac{R'^2-R^2}{a}$

$2CD = \dfrac{a^2 - (R'^2-R^2)}{a}$

$CD = \dfrac{a^2 - (R'^2-R^2)}{2a}$

circle_problem.jpg
 
[TIKZ]\draw [very thick] circle (2) ;
\draw [very thick] (7,0) circle (3) ;
\draw [thick] (-2,0) -- (11,0) ;
\draw [thick] (3.14,-3) -- (3.14,4) ;
\coordinate [label=right:$A$] (A) at (1.95,-0.5) ;
\coordinate [label=above:$B$] (B) at (7.5,2.95) ;
\coordinate [label=left:$P$] (P) at (3.14,3.5) ;
\coordinate [label=above:$C$] (C) at (0,0) ;
\coordinate [label=above right:$C'$] (E) at (7,0) ;
\coordinate [label=above right:$D$] (D) at (3.14,0) ;
\draw [very thick] (P) -- node[ right ]{$d$} (1.65,-1.5) ;
\draw [very thick] (P) -- node[ above ]{$d$} (8.5,2.85) ;
\draw [very thick] (C) -- node[ below ]{$R$} (A) ;
\draw [very thick] (E) -- node[ right ]{$R'$} (B) ;
\draw (C) -- (P) -- (E) ;
\draw (1.5,0.2) node {$x$} ;
\draw (5,0.2) node {$a-x$} ;
\draw (3.4,1.7) node {$h$} ;[/TIKZ]

Write $d$ for the equal distances $PA$ and $PB$, $h$ for $PD$, and $x$ for $CD$, so that $DC = a-x$.

Since $PC$ is the hypotenuse of both of the right-angled triangles $PAC$ and $PDC$, it follows that $$R^2+d^2 = x^2+h^2.$$ Similarly, it follows from the triangles $PBC'$ and $PDC'$ that $R'^2 + d^2 = (a-x)^2 + h^2.$ Subtract the first of those equations from the second, to get $$R'^2-R^2 = (a-x)^2-x^2 = a^2 -2ax.$$ Therefore $R'^2 - R^2 = a^2-2ax$, so that $x = \dfrac{a^2 - (R'^2 - R^2)}{2a}.$

Notice that $x$ turns out to depend only on $R$, $R'$ and $a$, and is independent of $d$ and $h$. This shows that the locus of $P$ is indeed the vertical line through $D$.

Edit: having posted that, I see that skeeter got there first!
 
Opalg said:
Edit: having posted that, I see that @skeeter got there first!

very nice diagram ... TIKZ?
 
skeeter said:
very nice diagram ... TIKZ?
Yes, but don't copy my Tikz coding – it's full of clumsy kludges.
 
Opalg said:
[TIKZ]\draw [very thick] circle (2) ;
\draw [very thick] (7,0) circle (3) ;
\draw [thick] (-2,0) -- (11,0) ;
\draw [thick] (3.14,-3) -- (3.14,4) ;
\coordinate [label=right:$A$] (A) at (1.95,-0.5) ;
\coordinate [label=above:$B$] (B) at (7.5,2.95) ;
\coordinate [label=left:$P$] (P) at (3.14,3.5) ;
\coordinate [label=above:$C$] (C) at (0,0) ;
\coordinate [label=above right:$C'$] (E) at (7,0) ;
\coordinate [label=above right:$D$] (D) at (3.14,0) ;
\draw [very thick] (P) -- node[ right ]{$d$} (1.65,-1.5) ;
\draw [very thick] (P) -- node[ above ]{$d$} (8.5,2.85) ;
\draw [very thick] (C) -- node[ below ]{$R$} (A) ;
\draw [very thick] (E) -- node[ right ]{$R'$} (B) ;
\draw (C) -- (P) -- (E) ;
\draw (1.5,0.2) node {$x$} ;
\draw (5,0.2) node {$a-x$} ;
\draw (3.4,1.7) node {$h$} ;[/TIKZ]

Write $d$ for the equal distances $PA$ and $PB$, $h$ for $PD$, and $x$ for $CD$, so that $DC = a-x$.

Since $PC$ is the hypotenuse of both of the right-angled triangles $PAC$ and $PDC$, it follows that $$R^2+d^2 = x^2+h^2.$$ Similarly, it follows from the triangles $PBC'$ and $PDC'$ that $R'^2 + d^2 = (a-x)^2 + h^2.$ Subtract the first of those equations from the second, to get $$R'^2-R^2 = (a-x)^2-x^2 = a^2 -2ax.$$ Therefore $R'^2 - R^2 = a^2-2ax$, so that $x = \dfrac{a^2 - (R'^2 - R^2)}{2a}.$

Notice that $x$ turns out to depend only on $R$, $R'$ and $a$, and is independent of $d$ and $h$. This shows that the locus of $P$ is indeed the vertical line through $D$.

Edit: having posted that, I see that skeeter got there first!
Thank you very much!
 
Opalg said:
Yes, but don't copy my Tikz coding – it's full of clumsy kludges.
I usually look at the source of Opalg's pictures to help me get rid of my own clumsy kludges. ;)
 
skeeter said:
Reference the attached marked diagram.

Line segments PB and PA are tangent to each circle. As such, they form right angles $PAC$ and $PBC'$

Using Pythagoras ...

$PC^2 = R^2 + PA^2 \implies PA^2 = PC^2 - R^2$
$PC'^2 = R'^2 + PB^2 \implies PB^2 = PC'^2 - R'^2$

$PA^2 = PB^2 \implies PC^2 - R^2 = PC'^2 - R'^2$

from the last equation above ...

$R'^2 - R^2 = PC'^2 - PC^2$

using Pythagoras again ...

$R'^2 - R^2 = (PD^2+C'D^2) - (PD^2+CD^2)$

$R'^2 - R^2 = C'D^2 - CD^2$

factoring the right side ...

$R'^2 - R^2 = (C'D - CD)(C'D+CD)$

note $C'D = a - CD$ and $a = C'D + CD$

substituting ...

$R'^2 - R^2 = (a - 2CD)(a)$

$\dfrac{R'^2-R^2}{a} = a - 2CD$

$2CD = a - \dfrac{R'^2-R^2}{a}$

$2CD = \dfrac{a^2}{a} - \dfrac{R'^2-R^2}{a}$

$2CD = \dfrac{a^2 - (R'^2-R^2)}{a}$

$CD = \dfrac{a^2 - (R'^2-R^2)}{2a}$

View attachment 11019
Thank you very much!
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
I usually look at the source of Opalg's pictures to help me get rid of my own clumsy kludges. ;)
You're too modest, Klaas – you're definitely the Tikz expert around here.
 
  • #10
Opalg said:
You're too modest, Klaas – you're definitely the Tikz expert around here.
Not sure about that, but at least I'm able to do something about it if for some reason TikZ does not work as expected.
 

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