Divergence of a radial field ##F=\hat{r}/r^{2+\varepsilon}##

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the divergence of a radial field defined as ##F=\hat{r}/r^{2+\varepsilon}##, focusing on the mathematical derivation and implications of the result. Participants explore the simplicity of the solution and its representation in different coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants examine the derivation of the divergence in spherical coordinates and question whether the solution is overly simplistic. Some suggest exploring the problem in Cartesian coordinates for a more complex representation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing feedback on the original poster's reasoning and suggesting alternative approaches. There is a general agreement that the work presented does not contain errors, although some express curiosity about the simplicity of the solution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the potential for confusion in terminology, particularly regarding the use of "simplistic" versus "too simple." Additionally, there is mention of the challenges that arise when functions depend on angular coordinates.

PhysicsKush
Messages
29
Reaction score
4
Homework Statement
Let's say we have a radial field ##F=\hat{r}/r^{2+\varepsilon}##. What is the divergence of this field ? You may ignore the origin.
Relevant Equations
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{F} = \left(\left( \frac{1}{r^2 }\right)\frac{\partial(F_{r} r^2)}{\partial r}
+ \left( \frac{1}{r \sin \theta}\right)\frac{\partial(f_{\theta}\sin \theta)}{\partial \theta} + \left( \frac{1}{r\sin \theta}\right)\frac{\partial f_{\phi}}{\partial \phi}\right) dr d\theta d\phi$$
Following (1),
\begin{align*}
\text{div} F = \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{F} &= \frac{1}{r^2} \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \left( r^2 F_{r}\right) \\ &= \frac{1}{r^2} \frac{\partial }{\partial r} \left( r^2 \frac{1}{r^{2+\varepsilon}}\right) \\ &= \frac{1}{r^2} \frac{\partial}{\partial r} (r^{-\varepsilon}) \\ &= \left( \frac{-\varepsilon}{r^2}\right) \frac{1}{r^{\varepsilon +1}} \\ &= -\frac{\varepsilon}{r^{\varepsilon +3}} \qquad , \text{for} \ \ r \in \mathbb{R} \setminus \{ 0\}
\end{align*}

The solution I'm providing seems to be to simplistic. Perhaps I have missed a step somewhere? Thank you in advance.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
Physics news on Phys.org
Why do you think it should be more complicated than that?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Abhishek11235 and vanhees71
PeroK said:
Why do you think it should be more complicated than that?
Thank you for your reply. Quite frankly this is my final answer but the reasoning seems quite simple. I just wanted to make sure that I don't miss anything out :)!
 
Mihail Anghelici said:
Thank you for your reply. Quite frankly this is my final answer but the reasoning seems quite simple. I just wanted to make sure that I don't miss anything out :)!
There's nothing missing that I can see.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2 and PhysicsKush
Mihail Anghelici said:
The solution I'm providing seems to be to simplistic.
You mean "too simple." Simplistic means "oversimplified." The phrase "too simplistic" means "too oversimplified" (as opposed to being oversimplified just enough). It just doesn't make sense.

https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/31/simplistic/
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PhysicsKush
vela said:
You mean "too simple." Simplistic means "oversimplified." The phrase "too simplistic" means "too oversimplified" (as opposed to being oversimplified just enough). It just doesn't make sense.

https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/31/simplistic/
Ah English is my fourth language therefore I still make common mistakes, thanks for pointing out this grammatical mistake !
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vela and PeroK
Like the others i don't see anything wrong in your work. Maybe it is kind of simple because it is done in spherical coordinates. Try to do it in cartesian coordinates i think it would be one page long or even more!.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: etotheipi
Delta2 said:
Like the others i don't see anything wrong in your work. Maybe it is kind of simple because it is done in spherical coordinates. Try to do it in cartesian coordinates i think it would be one page long or even more!.

<br /> \sum_i\frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} \left(\frac{x_i}{r^{3+\epsilon}}\right)<br /> = \sum_i\left(\frac{1}{r^{3 + \epsilon}}\frac{\partial x_i}{\partial x_i} - (3 +\epsilon) \frac{x_i}{r^{4 + \epsilon}}\frac{\partial r}{\partial x_i} \right)<br /> = \frac{3}{r^{3 + \epsilon}} - (3 +\epsilon) \frac{\sum_i x_i x_i}{r^{5 + \epsilon}}<br /> = \frac{3 - (3 + \epsilon)}{r^{3 + \epsilon}} = - \frac{\epsilon}{r^{3 + \epsilon}} in view of the obvious results \sum_i x_ix_i = r^2,\qquad\sum_i\frac{\partial x_i}{\partial x_i} = 3,\qquad \frac{\partial r}{\partial x_i} = \frac {x_i} r
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Abhishek11235, vanhees71, PhysicsKush and 1 other person
pasmith said:
<br /> \sum_i\frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} \left(\frac{x_i}{r^{3+\epsilon}}\right)<br /> = \sum_i\left(\frac{1}{r^{3 + \epsilon}}\frac{\partial x_i}{\partial x_i} - (3 +\epsilon) \frac{x_i}{r^{4 + \epsilon}}\frac{\partial r}{\partial x_i} \right)<br /> = \frac{3}{r^{3 + \epsilon}} - (3 +\epsilon) \frac{\sum_i x_i x_i}{r^{5 + \epsilon}}<br /> = \frac{3 - (3 + \epsilon)}{r^{3 + \epsilon}} = - \frac{\epsilon}{r^{3 + \epsilon}} in view of the obvious results \sum_i x_ix_i = r^2,\qquad\sum_i\frac{\partial x_i}{\partial x_i} = 3,\qquad \frac{\partial r}{\partial x_i} = \frac {x_i} r
Well you have compactified some steps (for example i would like to see the representation of the radial field in cartesian coordinates and the derivatives of ##r=\sqrt{\sum x_i^2}## with respect to each cartesian coordinate) but ok i am more than surprised that it can be done in less than half a page.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PhysicsKush
  • #10
Everything follows from r^2 = \sum_j x_j^2 and thus by the chain rule <br /> 2r \frac{\partial r}{\partial x_i} = \sum_j 2x_j \frac{\partial x_j}{\partial x_i} = 2x_i.
As the radial basis vector is x_i/r, functions of r alone are not too difficult to deal with in cartesian coordinates; it's when functions depend on \theta and \phi that things get messy.

Naturally, if you write (x,y,z) instead of (x_1,x_2,x_3) then you will use more paper.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
  • #11
To save even more paper you can also use the Einstein summation convention and drop the summation symbols.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K