Do all the peaks and valleys of f have f'=0

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the derivative of a function, f', equals zero at peaks and valleys of the function. Participants explore the implications of different types of roots and the behavior of derivatives at various points, including cases of continuity and discontinuity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that peaks and valleys of a function typically correspond to points where f' equals zero, referencing earlier learning.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that a notch in the graph implies f' is not equal to zero at that point.
  • Some participants assert that while all peaks and valleys have f' equal to zero, there are instances where f' equals zero without being a peak or valley, citing the example of f(x)=x^3 at x=0.
  • Clarification is provided that the correct terminology involves a double root rather than two distinct roots for f' to equal zero at that point, with examples like f(x)=x^2 at x=0.
  • Discussion includes the case of the function y=-|x| at x=0, emphasizing the role of continuity in the application of these rules.
  • A participant suggests that if a function has two roots, there exists a point between them where f' equals zero, indicating a potential misunderstanding in earlier statements about roots.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between peaks, valleys, and the conditions under which f' equals zero. There is no consensus on the implications of roots and the behavior of derivatives at specific points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of continuity in the discussion of derivatives, noting that non-continuous functions may exhibit behavior that deviates from established rules regarding peaks and valleys.

AMan24
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I learned in the earlier chapters that peaks and valleys of a fxn have points where f'=0 (i marked them with red x). A few chapters later it said if a fxn has 2 roots, then f'=0 (still the 1st graph).

So does that mean if the graph of a fxn is like the 2nd graph, the peaks and valleys are not f'=0? I drew where i would assume f'=0 with blue circles
 
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If there is a knotch then f'(x) is not equal to zero...
 
All peaks and all valleys have f'(x)=0 but there can be a point where f'(x)=0 but it's not peak or valley. For example f(x)=x^3 at x=0.

The correct wording is that if a function has a double root, not two roots, then f'(x)=0 at that point. Happens for example with f(x)=x^2 at x=0.
 
SlowThinker said:
All peaks and all valleys have f'(x)=0 but there can be a point where f'(x)=0 but it's not peak or valley. For example f(x)=x^3 at x=0.

The correct wording is that if a function has a double root, not two roots, then f'(x)=0 at that point. Happens for example with f(x)=x^2 at x=0.
Take the case y=-|x| at x=0
 
Niladri Dan said:
Take the case y=-|x| at x=0
Yes the rules only apply if the function has a continuous derivative.
With non-continuous functions or derivatives, pretty much anything can happen.
 
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AMan24 said:
View attachment 196209

A few chapters later it said if a fxn has 2 roots, then f'=0 (still the 1st graph).

What it should say, or maybe what you meant to say, was that if a function has two roots, say ##x_1## and ##x_2##, then there is a point ##c## between ##x_1## and ##x_2## such that ##f'(c) = 0##
 

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