Do elementary particles have attributes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of attributes of elementary particles, questioning whether these particles possess intrinsic properties or if such attributes are solely defined through interactions with other particles. The scope includes conceptual exploration of particle attributes in the context of quantum mechanics and the Standard Model.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if elementary particles are not composed of subparticles, they may not have any intrinsic attributes that can be determined without reference to other particles.
  • Another participant references the Standard Model, stating that elementary particles have attributes corresponding to quantum numbers, which are defined through operators related to observables.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that properties of physical objects can only be defined through interactions with other particles or systems, implying that attributes are relational rather than intrinsic.
  • Some participants point out that existing particle listings provide values for attributes but do not address the question of intrinsic properties when considering a particle in isolation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether elementary particles have intrinsic attributes or if all properties are relational. There is no consensus on the nature of particle attributes.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining particle properties without considering interactions, and the dependency on the framework of the Standard Model and quantum mechanics.

-Job-
Science Advisor
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Supposing there are some most elementary particles which are not composed of subparticles, would these have any attributes?
I mean "attributes of a particle" as something whose value i can determine by looking exclusively at that particle. For example, under this definition, "position" isn't really an attribute of a particle because i can't, by looking exclusively at a particle, determine it's position. I'm forced to compare and relate my particle to other particles in the universe (such as the my own constituent particles) to attempt to determine a value for "position".
The case seems to be the same for momentum, mass and spin. These last three actually seem to require interaction with other particles in order for us to determine their value.
I guess the question is, if there were only a single elementary particle in the universe, what attributes would it have? Do particles really have any attributes encoded in them, or are attributes only something that we invent by relating particles to each other?
Seems to me like elementary particles don't have any actual "attributes". If so then what's the difference between matter and space? What is it that makes a particle a particle?
 
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In the Standard model of Particles and interactions, elementary particles have certain attributes which correspond to quantum numbers, meaning that eigenvalues of various operators describing observables are used to identify a particle: example mass corresponds to the square of the momentum operator, electric charge to the electric charge operator, spin and helicity are linked to Pauli-Liubarsky operator,etc...

Daniel.
 
Essentially, all possible properties of physical objects can only be defined through interactions with other particles/systems.

Moreover, it is only possible to define such properties if there are differences[/color] in the way two (or more) particles interact.
 
For the currently accepted values of the 'attributes' of fundamental particles, see the particle listings provided by the Particle Data Group.
 
Particle properties?

Tom Mattson said:
For the currently accepted values of the 'attributes' of fundamental particles, see the particle listings provided by the Particle Data Group.
This doesn't answer Job's question:
Job said:
I mean "attributes of a particle" as something whose value i can determine by looking exclusively at that particle.
Those particle listings tell us how particles "look" and "behave" in relation to measurement devices and thus (ultimately) in relation to other particles. If we think of a particle in splendid isolation, out of relation to everything else (including our eyes and central nervous systems considered as measurement devices), it has no properties whatsoever, for all particle properties are ultimately relational. ahrkron got it right:
ahrkron said:
Essentially, all possible properties of physical objects can only be defined through interactions with other particles/systems.
For more information take a look http://www.flyservers.com/members5/thisquantumworld.com/index.htm" .
 
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