Do gases have a definite volume?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of gases, specifically addressing whether gases have a definite volume and how this relates to the ideal gas law (Pv=Nrt). Participants explore the implications of gas behavior in different container sizes and conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question the relationship between gas volume and container volume, considering the effects of pressure and the number of moles on the calculated volume. There is also discussion about the conditions under which gases expand to fill their containers.

Discussion Status

The conversation includes various perspectives on gas behavior, with some participants suggesting that gases occupy the volume of their containers while others raise questions about the conditions affecting this relationship. There is no explicit consensus, but the discussion is active and exploring multiple interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the ideal gas law describes an equilibrium situation, and there are considerations regarding the density of gas and the definition of its volume in non-ideal conditions.

mackygood
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I've been told that gases take on the volume of whatever container they're in but what about Pv=Nrt ?

Would it be possible that the calculated V is smaller than the container's volume?

Thanks
 
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That will mean gas is kept in higher pressure - but you can't keep higher pressure if gas is allowed to expand, which will happen if the container is larger.

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methods
 
Couldn't other variables other than pressure have an impact on the calculated volume of the gas, like the number of moles?

thx
 
They do, but they don't change anything.

pV=nRT describes the equilibrium situation, after known number of moles of gas (n) expanded to fill whole container (V). Expansion is fast, but not infinite, so it may happen that gas doesn't occupy whole volume of the container. However, it will not have a constant density then - and you will have troubles defining its volume (in other words - you will have troubles showing where the gas ends, where is the border).

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methods
 
So as far as I'm concerned, gas volume = container volume? :D
 
Yes.

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methods
 
thanks for all your time and help
 

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