Do momentum and kinetic energy operators always commute for a free particle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between momentum and kinetic energy operators in quantum mechanics, specifically regarding their commutation for free particles and particles in an infinite square well. Participants explore the implications of these operators' definitions and their eigenfunctions in different contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether momentum and kinetic energy operators commute for a particle in an infinite square well, noting that the wave function is an eigenfunction of the kinetic energy operator but not of the momentum operator.
  • Others argue that for a free particle, the wave function is an eigenfunction of both operators, leading to the implication that the operators do not commute.
  • One participant asserts that there is no momentum operator for a particle in an infinite square well, suggesting that the question of commutation is nonsensical in that context.
  • Another participant counters that a momentum operator can be defined, emphasizing the complexity of defining it in a way that is well-defined across the entire Hilbert space.
  • Discussion includes the concept of unbounded operators and their definitions on specific domains, with references to the mathematical treatment of momentum operators and boundary conditions.
  • Participants highlight the need for careful consideration of the mathematical framework, including Rigged Hilbert Spaces and self-adjoint extensions of operators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the existence and definition of the momentum operator in the context of an infinite square well. There are competing views on whether the momentum and kinetic energy operators commute, particularly in different scenarios (free particle vs. infinite square well).

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in the definitions and assumptions regarding operators in quantum mechanics, particularly concerning their domains and the implications of boundary conditions. The complexity of defining momentum operators in various contexts is emphasized.

fricke
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For particle in the box wave function, it is the eigenfunction of kinetic energy operator but not the eigenfunction of momentum operator. So, do these two operators commute? (or it has nothing to do with commutator stuff?)

How about for free particle? For free particle, the wave function is eigenfunction of both kinetic energy operator and momentum operator. So, does it mean these two operators do not commute?
 
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There's no momentum operator for a particle in a infinite square well. So it doesn't even make sense to ask the question whether momentum operator and Hamiltonian commute or not :-).

For the free particle, the momentum operators all commute with the Hamiltonian since the momentum of a free particle is conserved.
 
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vanhees71 said:
There's no momentum operator for a particle in a infinite square well.
There is. You couldn't define the hamiltonian without a momentum operator and you wouldn't have an uncertainty from [X,P]=ih1.
 
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cpsinkule said:
There is. You couldn't define the hamiltonian without a momentum operator and you wouldn't have an uncertainty from [X,P]=ih1.
Careful! This is a harder issue than it seems. The difficulty is defining a momentum operator for the inf-sq-well case in such a way that it is well-defined on the entire Hilbert space of that problem. This has been discussed at length in older threads. Hmm, now I'll have to go hunting to find one of them... :oldfrown:
 
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strangerep said:
Careful! This is a harder issue than it seems.

Indeed - its this Rigged Hilbert Space stuff which requires care.

The following examines it in the case of the square well:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0110165v1.pdf

As can be seen its not exactly trivial.

Thanks
Bill
 
strangerep said:
Careful! This is a harder issue than it seems. The difficulty is defining a momentum operator for the inf-sq-well case in such a way that it is well-defined on the entire Hilbert space of that problem. This has been discussed at length in older threads. Hmm, now I'll have to go hunting to find one of them... :oldfrown:
Unbounded operators are never defined on the entire Hilbert space. It's true that the momentum operator on ##L^2([a,b])## works differently, though. One starts with a dense domain such that ##p=-\mathrm i\partial_x## is symmetric. Such a domain can be found easily by restricting to continuously differentiable functions that vanish at the boundary. One can then study self-adjoint extensions using the von Neumann deficiency indices method. One finds that there are infinitely many self-adjoint extensions ##p_U##, labeled by ##U(1)## matrices (the deficiency spaces are 1-dimensional). They correspond to all possible choices of boundary conditions that keep the operator symmetric. Moreover, ##[x,p_U]=\mathrm i##, so each ##p_U## consitutes a possible momentum operator. Depending on the physical situation, one of these ##p_U## will be appropriate. Often, we choose Dirichlet boundary conditions or periodic boundary conditions for example.

However, there is a physically relevant example, where no self-adjoint extensions exist: ##L^2([0,\infty))##. So there is no momentum operator conjugate to the radial coordinate ##r##.
 
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