Do objects appear heavier if they run over a scale very fast

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter greypilgrim
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    Relativistic mass Scale
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relativistic mass and how it affects the weight of objects, specifically an electric tram and a battery-powered motorbike, as they pass over a scale at speeds close to the speed of light. Participants explore theoretical implications of relativistic effects in different systems, including energy transfer and the definitions of mass.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the tram, being an open system, would appear heavier on the scale due to its energy source, while the motorbike, as a closed system, would not experience a change in total energy and hence mass.
  • Others argue that the motorbike's relativistic speed could be achieved through various means, including hypothetical scenarios involving external energy sources.
  • A later reply questions the classification of the motorbike as a closed system, noting that it exchanges energy and momentum with the Earth when it accelerates.
  • Participants discuss the implications of energy transfer and momentum in the context of relativistic speeds, with some emphasizing the need to consider the effects on the Earth or the scale itself.
  • There is a detailed exploration of the gamma factor and energy conservation, with calculations presented to illustrate the relationship between rest mass and the weight measured on the scale.
  • Some participants highlight the distinction between rest mass and the weight measured, suggesting that the scale reading depends on the energy of the moving object, which varies with speed and frame of reference.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of the motorbike as a closed system and the implications of relativistic mass. There is no consensus on whether the scale would measure different weights for the tram and motorbike under the given conditions, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the effects of energy transfer and momentum.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include assumptions about energy transfer, the definitions of open and closed systems, and the effects of relativistic speeds on measurements. Some participants note the lack of experimental confirmation for certain theoretical claims regarding mass changes.

  • #31
For any such effect to be measurable you would probably have to be running faster than any human has ever travelled, even in a space rocket, and the pan of your
scales would obviously have be of ENORMOUS length!
 

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