Do other countries look at us and laugh?

[Jasongreat]

We want him to grow some cahunas and push this stuff through and let the right-wing whine all they want!

I think that's what a lot on the right want also, remember Clinton pushing through his assault weapons ban, how did that work out for the Left? If I remember right the next election saw the left loose their majority in congress, remember newt gingrich?

As far as the original thread goes, the only reason I could see other countries looking at us and laughing is, they see us trying to do the same things that have destroyed their own countries.

 

[Jasongreat]

Anybody who thought that Obama was going to fix all of our problems in a few weeks is delusional.

I agree but would go a little further and say anyone who believes a politician will fix a problem is delusional, the problem is their reelection ticket.

It took Bush & Co. 8yrs to get us in the pile of Sh@t we are currently in.

I also agree with this, however I hope you include the democrat majority congress of his two last years as part of the Co., as I do.

Obama, or anybody else for that matter, is going to have a hard time sitting things right,

I agree again, especially if he does exactly the same things Bush and Co did for the last eight years such as deficit spending, carrying on two wars, and bailing out big corporations.

if it is even possible. So grow up and learn the meaning of patience.[/

QUOTE]

What do you mean "if" it is even possible, they said when we elected them they would solve the problem. Are you implying politicians are liars? I wish our politicians would grow up and learn the meaning of patience also, the patience to read a bill before signing it, the patience to wait for all the data to come in before jumping to conclusions, the patience to allow proper vetting of a bill before voting on it, the patience to allow dissenting opinion into the discussions, and most of all the patience to pay off one debt before accumulating the next one.

 

[WhoWee]

Anybody who thought that Obama was going to fix all of our problems in a few weeks is delusional. It took Bush & Co. 8yrs to get us in the pile of Sh@t we are currently in. Obama, or anybody else for that matter, is going to have a hard time sitting things right, if it is even possible. So grow up and learn the meaning of patience.

Then you agree Obama should quit telling the world leaders about his "accomplishments" in the past 8 months?

 

[sylas]

Then you agree Obama should quit telling the world leaders about his "accomplishments" in the past 8 months?

That's a very odd comment on a couple of levels.

First, it is a complete non-sequitur. Integral notes that Obama can't solve all your problems immediately. That doesn't mean you haven't achieved anything, or that you shouldn't make any mention progress that has been made.

Second, it seems completely out of touch with what Obama is saying. Pretty every report I have seen of summits or meetings in which President Obama is involved has focused not on boasting about what has been done, but in emphasizing the problems and issue that are still ahead of you and the rest of the world.

So in brief. Of course you can speak of what has been achieved while at the same time recognizing there's still a lot more to do. The kind of negativity that refuses to recognize any steps until you've finished the walk would be ridiculous.

And unless you're getting radically different news from me, the major focus of what I've seen from the current administration at the international level continues to be one what is still to be done.

Felicitations -- sylas

 

[WhoWee]

That's a very odd comment on a couple of levels.

First, it is a complete non-sequitur. Integral notes that Obama can't solve all your problems immediately. That doesn't mean you haven't achieved anything, or that you shouldn't make any mention progress that has been made.

Second, it seems completely out of touch with what Obama is saying. Pretty every report I have seen of summits or meetings in which President Obama is involved has focused not on boasting about what has been done, but in emphasizing the problems and issue that are still ahead of you and the rest of the world.

So in brief. Of course you can speak of what has been achieved while at the same time recognizing there's still a lot more to do. The kind of negativity that refuses to recognize any steps until you've finished the walk would be ridiculous.

And unless you're getting radically different news from me, the major focus of what I've seen from the current administration at the international level continues to be one what is still to be done.

Felicitations -- sylas

Please read this news account.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33004755/ns/business-world_business/

"PITTSBURGH - World leaders on Friday issued sweeping promises to fix a malfunctioning global economic system in hopes of heading off future financial meltdowns. President Barack Obama said actions taken so far “brought the global economy back from the brink.”

“We leave here today confident and united,” Obama said at the conclusion of a two-day gathering of the world’s 20 top economies to deal with the worst financial crisis since the 1930s.

The leaders agreed to keep stimulus plans, which include government spending and low interest rates, generally in place in their respective countries for now to avoid derailing still-fragile recoveries. Obama had pressed for just such a course and praised the decision.

“Our coordinated stimulus plans played an indispensable role in averting catastrophe. Now we must make sure that when growth returns, jobs do, too,” he said at a wrap-up news conference. “That’s why we will continue our stimulus efforts until our people are back to work and phase them out when our recovery is strong.”

In a statement, all the G-20 leaders declared major progress from what they called their coordinated efforts and “forceful response.”

“It worked,” they said.

Although many of the pronouncements and actions taken by the leaders lacked specifics or details on follow-through, leaders were bold in pronouncing the gathering — the third G-20 summit in a year — as a big success.

“There was unanimity around the table that the errors of the past won’t happen again,” said French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

“The old system of international economic cooperation is over. The new system, as of today, has begun,” said British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, referring to a decision to enhance the status for the Group of 20 to make it the lead group for dealing with future international economic issues, eclipsing the older, Western-dominated Group of Eight.

“I have the impression that we are on a successful path,” said German Chancellor Angela Merkel, before leaving Pittsburgh to fly back to Berlin, where she faces German voters on Sunday.

They moved to require members to subject their economic policies to the scrutiny of a peer review process that would determine whether they were “collectively consistent” with sustainable global growth. They promised tighter and more coordinated financial regulation.

And, repeating pledges from G-20 summits in November and April, when financial panic was rampant, they vowed anew to “reject protectionism in all its forms.” They also went along with Obama’s push for a pledge to withdraw government subsidies from fossil fuels such as oil, coal and natural gas linked to global warming.

While issuing lofty vows, the leaders failed to define how to accomplish many of them and were quickly back to bickering over details.

They did not suggest, for instance, how the peer review process would be enforced. And they failed to mention that previous pledges to avoid protectionism had been ignored by nearly all 20 members.

Disagreements over whether China should gain voting strength in the International Monetary Fund at the expense of European nations and over global warming language marred the summit."

The report continues. However, when Obama talks about stimulus and jobs creation he fails to mention that TARP bailed out the banks, less than 20% of the stimulus funds in the US have been dispersed, many of the "saved jobs" can't be documented and many of the "created jobs" are Government positions.

 

[russ_watters]

I think it is the unqualified "I'm proud to be an American" which irks some of us. It's like saying "I'm proud to have 5 fingers on my left hand". It's totally meaningless, and reeks of shallowness.

Why do you assume peoples' pride in their country is unqualified?

 

[russ_watters]

No. The opposite of "pride" is "humility", not shame. (Notwithstanding what some radio and teevee personalities will try to tell you.)

According to dictionary.com, it only gives one antonym to "pride" and it is "humility", but it gives three antonyms to "shame": "pride, self-esteem, self-respect"...

...and if you go to the main thesaurus entry for "humility", you get this: "abasement, bashfulness, demureness, diffidence, docility, fawning, inferiority complex, lack of pride, lowliness, meekness, mortification, nonresistance, obedience, obsequiousness, passiveness, reserve, resignation, self-abasement, self-abnegation, servility, sheepishness, shyness, subjection, submissiveness, subservience, timidity, timorousness, unobtrusiveness, unpretentiousness"

So I'd say you are right that humility is an antonym of pride, but you are wrong that shame is not.

 

[OmCheeto]

Why do you assume peoples' pride in their country is unqualified?

Because few of them who say so know why. I've discussed it with many people, from many countries. It's a philosophical thing. Which is why tried to steer this thread back onto topic. GeorginaS had about the best answer I've ever seen to the off topic question. But I think one would have to understand Zen to understand her answer.

There are no borders. We made them up. There are no countries. We invented them. There is only us. To be prideful of something imaginary is to be, um, ...,

Sorry.

Can't find the word in the dictionary.

 

[russ_watters]

Because few of them who say so know why. I've discussed it with many people, from many countries.

Few people who are patriotic know why? I've discussed the concept with a lot of people too and I don't know that I've ever come across a person who was confused about why they were patriotic! But I have come across a lot of people who weren't patriotic who didn't understand the concept:

GeorginaS had about the best answer I've ever seen to the off topic question. But I think one would have to understand Zen to understand her answer.

There are no borders. We made them up. There are no countries. We invented them. There is only us. To be prideful of something imaginary is to be, um, ...

Just because we invented something, that doesn't make it imaginary. I'm quite certain my car exists and is a pretty solid concept! What you call "Zen" just sounds like nonsense to me. Honestly, it just sounds to me like you just don't want to accept/understand peoples' real opinions/positions about the concept.

 

[sylas]

Please read this news account.

The report does not correspond to what you described previously; a case of President Obama simply speaking of "his" accomplishments. The statements covered combined actions from the nations at the summit. And -- as I would expect and as I described previously -- there was a focus on what still needs to happen. Future actions were the introduction and the conclusion of the president's press conference remarks; and every mention of what has been achieved was followed with a greater amount of text focused on what is still to be done.

I stand by my previous remark; and this news story indicates that the real problem is not that you aren't reading the same stories; but that you only seem to see a fraction of what is there.

My previous post stands unmodified; and president Obama's press conference fits what I said previously. Here it is again:

(1) Of course you can speak of what has been achieved while at the same time recognizing there's still a lot more to do. The kind of negativity that refuses to recognize any steps until you've finished the walk would be ridiculous.

(2) Unless you're getting radically different news from me, the major focus of what I've seen from the current administration at the international level continues to be on what is still to be done.

Cheers -- sylas