Do particles in a system at absolute zero still have kinetic energy?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of particles, particularly electrons, in a system at absolute zero temperature. Participants explore the implications of quantum mechanics versus classical mechanics regarding kinetic energy and motion at this temperature, questioning the validity of the notion that all motion ceases at absolute zero.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that electrons at the Fermi level in a metal continue to move at the Fermi velocity even at absolute zero, challenging the idea that everything stops at this temperature.
  • One participant explains the kinetic energy of free electrons using classical and quantum mechanics, noting that while classical theory suggests zero kinetic energy at T=0, quantum mechanics indicates the presence of Fermi energy that does not depend on temperature.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the classical notion of everything stopping at absolute zero is incorrect, highlighting quantum effects such as the Pauli exclusion principle and zero-point energy that allow for nonzero momentum probabilities even at zero temperature.
  • Some participants express disagreement with the relevance of classical analogies to free particles at absolute zero, arguing that the behavior of particles in a quantum state must be considered, particularly regarding the distribution of energy at temperatures above absolute zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the classical notion of complete rest at absolute zero is incorrect. However, there are competing views regarding the implications of quantum mechanics on particle motion and energy distribution, leading to an unresolved discussion on the nuances of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of kinetic energy in classical versus quantum contexts, and the unresolved implications of temperature effects on the Fermi surface and energy distributions.

azaharak
Messages
152
Reaction score
0
Is it weird that at absolute zero in a metal, electrons at the fermi level still move around at the fermi velocity.

Is the notion that everything stops at absolute zero incorrect?

Thank you
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Kinetic energy of free electron: E=p^2/2m in classical mechanics, and E=h^2/2m in quantum mechanics.
Under the classical theory at T=0 V=0 and accordingly E=0. But in quantum mechanics at T=0 electron in a crystal has « Fermi's energy »: E=h^2(3pi^2*n)^(2/3)/2m. As you can see it does not depend on temperature.
Is the notion that everything stops at absolute zero incorrect?
Yes.
I wish success.
 
absolute zero and ground state

Yes. The notion that everything comes to a stop is a classical notion and quantum effects will "violate" it. Here, you see the Pauli principle in action. Even without it (i.e. for a system of bosons, or for one isolated particle), you have quantum zero-point energy, ensuring that if you measure the momentum of a particle, there is a probability that it is nonzero even at zero temperature.

The only case where the particles are strictly motionless is for a system of bosons that do not interact, or a single particle, in an infinite geometry without any potentials.

Thus: At T=0, it is not true that particles are at rest. However, it is true that the system (as a whole) is in its ground state, the state of lowest possible energy. (This is by definition, more or less.) But the ground state will typically have a nonzero probability for a particle being in motion!
 


AM_Ru said:
Kinetic energy of free electron: E=p^2/2m in classical mechanics, and E=h^2/2m in quantum mechanics.
Under the classical theory at T=0 V=0 and accordingly E=0. But in quantum mechanics at T=0 electron in a crystal has « Fermi's energy »: E=h^2(3pi^2*n)^(2/3)/2m. As you can see it does not depend on temperature.

I have to disagree with all the "content" of that paragraph. 1) The analogy to the energy of the free particle is completely irrelevant at this point. 2) You give a zeroth-order formula for T=0 and impose that this formula is temperature independent. That's trivial and has no significance. To the contrary, the Fermi surface gets smeered out for T>0 because there is a probability distribution in energy.

EmpaDoc said:
Thus: At T=0, it is not true that particles are at rest. However, it is true that the system (as a whole) is in its ground state, the state of lowest possible energy. (This is by definition, more or less.) But the ground state will typically have a nonzero probability for a particle being in motion!

I completely agree with that.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
14K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
12K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K