Do Photons Perceive a Two-Dimensional Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the nature of photons and their relationship to dimensions and time, questioning whether photons perceive a two-dimensional universe and if matter can exist without time. The conversation spans theoretical implications and conceptual inquiries regarding the nature of light and the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that because photons move at the speed of light and do not experience time, they might "see" everything in two dimensions.
  • Others argue that if time does not exist for photons, the three spatial dimensions should still be present, questioning the reasoning behind a two-dimensional perception.
  • A participant suggests that photons might only perceive the frame of time at their creation, likening it to a static painting, which implies a limited existence in three-dimensional space.
  • One participant humorously notes that photons do not interact with each other, which raises questions about the relevance of the discussion.
  • Another participant discusses the belief that light exists in three spatial dimensions and mentions theories regarding time's role in the evolution of the universe, suggesting that time is necessary for change and the emergence of mass.
  • There is a suggestion that the Higgs boson might interact with time to create three-dimensional objects, indicating a potential relationship between mass and time.
  • A far-out thought is raised about the possibility of relating the three dimensions of space to electric and magnetic fields, with time as a third dimension.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the dimensional perception of photons and the relationship between time and matter. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on these complex topics.

Contextual Notes

Some statements depend on interpretations of time and dimensions, and the discussion includes speculative ideas that are not universally accepted. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of time and its fundamental role in the universe.

nuby
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Since a photon moves at c has 0 mass, and doesn't "experience" time. Would it "see" everything in 2 dimensions (a frame) .. and could you say it only exists in 2 dimensions?

Could matter exist without time?
 
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Why 2 dimensions? If "time" does not exist for a photon, wouldn't the three space dimensions still exist?
 
HallsofIvy said:
Why 2 dimensions? If "time" does not exist for a photon, wouldn't the three space dimensions still exist?

I think the photon would only "see" the frame of time (or 2D space) of when it was created, like a painting, and 3D space or mass wouldn't exist.
 
Last edited:
nuby said:
Since a photon moves at c has 0 mass, and doesn't "experience" time. Would it "see" everything in 2 dimensions (a frame) .. and could you say it only exists in 2 dimensions?

Could matter exist without time?
Don't forget the photon gets dizzy as well since it has spin. :smile:

Seriously, the question and the answer is useless since photons do not interact with each other, they can only be absorbed and emitted.
 
MeJennifer said:
Don't forget the photon gets dizzy as well since it has spin. :smile:

Seriously, the question and the answer is useless since photons do not interact with each other, they can only be absorbed and emitted.

(... except when pairs of photons meet with sufficiently large center-of-mass energy to cause electron/positron pair production, which may not be relevant to this thread, but I'm mentioning it in case anyone comes across this statement out of context).
 
Dimensions
It's believed light, electromagnetic radiation, exists in three spatial dimensions like the strong and weak forces; gravity may be a force which "leaks" (hence weakens) through higher dimensions, if such higher dimensions exist. It seems to "like" x,y,z directions equally moving in all three at "c".


Could matter exist without time?

As far as is known, No.

As far as is understood, time permits the universe to evolve. The initial energy in the universe transforms with time to the four fundamental forces we observe today, to enable "change" such as mass to emerge. particles, planets,stars, galaxies,etc. Via inflationary theory, time apparently existed before space for maybe 10^-33 seconds during the inflationary phase of the universe when things expanded faster than light. Without time the universe could not evolve. Time permits change.

An aspect of your question is whether time is fundamental or an emergent phenomena "created" at or near the origin of the universe. I don't believe that issue has been settled. Some theories envision time as having existed before our universe, such as "big bounce" and "bubble" theories, but big bang theories appear to see time as starting or maybe restarting in this incarnation.
 
Naty1 said:
Could matter exist without time?

As far as is known, No. .

If mass can't exist without time, could it be the Higgs boson interacts with time (frames) to create 3 dimensional objects or space? Or could the Higgs boson be related to time some other way?
 
Another far-out question/thought, since an electromagnetic wave consists of two forces (electric / magnetic), could the three dimensions of 3D space and matter be.. electric fields (x) magnetic fields (y), and time (z)?
 

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